Obama on Immigration: Election Time Again

I pretty much like the plan, and others make good cases about the economic benefits of allowing paths to citizenship, but we seem to disagree on that, and all I could do is parrot others' thinking, so....

But that it's a re-election tactic is clear, and may backfire.  The President told us that WE would need to drive the push in Congress's direction, AND told us to sign up at whitehouse.gov, which then means you get solicited for contributions. 

 Rep. Luis Gutierrez had said a day or two earlier that any reform was soooo destined to fail that he didn't even want Obama getting people's hopes up; today he is supportive, but what's he gonna say?

With all the activism to push the DREAM Act, did the Prez help?  I can't remember that he did. 

I read commentary, too, that while he was in one of the poorest cities in the US, he didn't mention anything about solving that, or the Maquiadora issue.

To be blunt, there will likely not be a lot of high-tech startups coming out of the batch of Mexican immigrants we're discussing, certainly not the grownups. To use this as the excuse for whatever policy is disingenuous

Why?

My grandfather arrived here at 12 . Speaking only Portugese not Spanish but that was hardly a plus. And when he died  was chairman of the draft board (that drafted me) a director of the local bank and the operator of three small business providing employment.. One ,the start up of the town's first movie theatre. In 1930.When it was sort of high tech, and risky.

Pretty much in line with

That doesn't mean Mexican immigrants won't create good businesses in areas they work in, or that kids of any ethnic group won't study hard and become successful  in their chosen careers

So what was the point of the first statement.? Should Obama have said

 I know these immigrants are going to work at shit jobs.

What purpose would that have served?

Granted unlike me you  think  Obama could have implemented more progressive policies but it's beneath you to let that result in  knee jerk derison of his every 'motherhood and god' statement..He's a politician making polical noises and employing political tactics. If you're looking for deep philosophical statements, try the Union Theological Seminary. No offence intended to that excellent institution but before a politician can change the world she has to get elected. Goes with the territory.Sort of like if a maiden wants to marry a prince first she has to kiss a lot of toads.

Obama gives a speech on immigration. Since a speech was given on immigration, Obama will not give a speech about unemployment and jobs? Interesting premise.

So if Obama gave a speech that emphasized jobs before he gave a speech on immigration, Desider would feel OK? There was something called the State of The Unio earlier this year. Some consider the SOTU to set the tone for the administration's agenda.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/State_of_the_Union/state-union-2011-obama...

It seems Obama has talked about jobs and the economy.

Yeah, keep the illegal immigrants working their below-minimum wage jobs! We don't want no non-technology-starting-up Mexicans working in this country unless they're being exploited by Big Ag. Gosh, think of what it would do to our wages if corporations had to start paying them fairly!

Obama mentioned alligators in the moat.

You think that would deter the illegal entry?

How many?

IMHO One alligator won't do it  

Why not just bring the armed troops home from Afghanistan,  and protect the border.

We don't need alligator teeth we just need teeth in our border enforcement, and please not just one soldier giving lip service.

According to Sheriff Paul Babeu, arrests are down on the border because the border patrol has been told not to arrest, but to redirect the illegals back across he border. 

How disengenious is that?

Obam doesnt like the Democrats he has to work with, so he'll just give the illegals ciizenship and tell long time Democrats I dont need you, We have replacement workers Democrats now.   

I thought this blogpost was about Obama's misuse of the immigration issue for political purposes, and in particular to avoid the issue of unemployment.  FWIW, I think immigration and unemployment are both really important issues, with unemployment being critical right now.  But I just don't believe that even a politically-motivated focus on immigration is inconsistent with the need to focus on unemployment.

Anyway, whatever.

WHY is the USA  BANKRUPT?

This was sent to me as an email

 Informative,  and mind  boggling!
 You think the war in  Iraq is costing us too much?  Read this:
 
 Boy, was I confused.  I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is
 the  Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
 I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

 I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they
 are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them.  I also
 have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts...
 
 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each
 year by state governments.
 
 Verify at:
 http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7f
 d8

 2.  $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as
 food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

 Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
 Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
 education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
 English!
 Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt..0HTML

 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born
 children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
 Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01HTML

 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY(1.1 Billion a year) is spent to incarcerate
 illegal aliens.
 Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt01.HTML
 7.  30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
 Verify at:
 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01HTML<http://transcripts
 /..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
 8.  $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
 social services by the American taxpayers.
 Verify at: http://premium.cnn/..com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML
 9.  $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
 the illegal aliens.
 Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC%20RI%20PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
 10.  The illegal aliens in the United States  have a crime rate that's two
 and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens.  In particular, their
 children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
 Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn/..com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML <
 <http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML%3E>
 <http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML%3E> 

 11.  During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
 crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
 Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
 marijuana, crossed into the   US  from the Southern border. They have
 improved on that, they now plant large swaths of land in the Sierrra Nevada
 Mts with marijuana. Protected by armed guards and worked by immigrants .They
 are in some of the most desolate areas  and the police are too  few to cause
 them any concerns!!  They keep the illegals working for them by keeping
 their families back in Mexico.
  
  http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML%3E> 

  http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML%3E> Verify at:
 Homeland Security Report:
 12.  The National policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass
 deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
 between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

 Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute/..org/PDF/deportation.PDF
 13.  In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their
 countries of origin.

 Verify at: http://www/..rense..com/general75/niht.htm <
 <http://www.rense.com/general75/niht..htm%3E>
 <http://www.rense.com/general75/niht..htm%3E> 
 14..  'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes
 Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'
 Verify at:  http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml <
 <http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E> < ww  http:>
 <http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E> %20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml <
 <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E>
 <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E> 

 The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE
 LIKE ME HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS
 $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE
 CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY. A Just one million dollars of this given to each

  <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E>  honest citizen of the USA would
 result in spending our way our of this mess we are in!

IMMIGRANT POEM

I cross ocean, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.

Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.

Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."

Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!

By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.

Write to friends in motherland, Tell them 'come fast as you can.'

They come in turbans and cheby Ford trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks

They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!

Fourteen families, they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.

Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I
say,

"Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.

Send for family they just trash, But they, too, draw the welfare cash!

Everything is very good, And soon we own the neighbourhood.

We have hobby it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.

Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!

American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare   running here.

We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race.

 If they no like us, they can scram, Got lots of room in Pakistan.

It is interesting that the federal government provides a
single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890.00 and each can also
get  an additional $580.00 in social assistance for a total of $2,470.00.
This compares very well to a single pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of America for 40 to 50  years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement. 

 Maybe our pensioners should apply as refugees!

This was sent to me

Yesterday I'd been trying to think through why the argument that legalizing Mexican and other immigrants roughly in the paths to citizenship described by Obama would rob other Americans of jobs wasn't  altogether valid. (Wow; what an unwieldy sentence, and I can't seem to fix it) I had a lot of different stuff in my head yesterday, and I don't know all the economic terms that would make formulating a counter argument coherent.  I kept coming back to the notion that immigrant/native born employment isn't zero sum, and could actually create more jobs.  I'd read a piece from Bell Policy Institute years ago that described why that's true.  It's a non-partisan think tank in Colorado, and I've learned to trust their analyses.

Anyway, this morning I stuck 'not zero sum' into the Google with a few other terms, and found this article from The Hill., part of which says:

"A recent study conducted by Dr. Raúl Hinojosa-Ojeda for the Immigration Policy Center and the Center for American Progress, estimates that immigration reform would add at least $1.5 trillion in cumulative Gross Domestic Product to the U.S. economy over 10 years. Over the first three years alone, the higher personal incomes of new and newly legalized immigrant workers would generate enough consumer spending to support 750,000 to 900,000 jobs in the United States, as well as increased tax revenues of $4.5 billion to $5.4 billion.

 A second study, by University of Southern California researchers, estimates that legalizing unauthorized immigrants would yield $16 billion in annual economic benefits to California alone when all the “multiplier effects” of higher wages, increased consumer spending and increased tax revenue are taken into account. The study estimates that “granted legal status, California’s unauthorized immigrants could strengthen our national social safety net by bolstering Social Security and Medicare taxes by an additional $2.2 billion annually.”

Before I stuck that 'not zero sum' in, I found lots of tirades like Resistance's in the hits, with some pretty ugly bias with purported facts to ballast them (as his do).  I dunno; around here, all the Mexican and Central American folks have been good additions to the community and the schools, save for the bias against the schoolkids and some of the more active bigots seeming to feel it's their duty to harass them.

The kids learn English, not always the adults, which does piss off some Anglos.  Though the practicalities involved in taking English classes (distance to travel, time, etc.) would need to be considered very fairly, IMO, before making it mandatory.

Employment is not a zero-sum game in which workers compete for some set number of jobs. Workers who earn higher wages also buy more goods and services from U.S. businesses, and pay more in taxes to federal and state governments, both of which create jobs.

After I'd read Lulu's Counterpunch op-ed, I saw this Joel Olson piece on living in Arizona today.  He describes a bit of the history of elites in Goldwater-Libertarian AZ living in harmony with migrant workers, and sees the populist fight against SB 1070 as a great vehicle for self-determination and struggle in the ongoing class war and laissez-faire capitalism.  Pretty interesting read for a bleeding heart.   ;o)

Most colorful sentences:

"Areas that were once comfortably white now have Spanish-language business signs. More and more schoolchildren have brown faces—even in the "good" schools. Cars roll down formerly white streets bumping music whose percussion comes from a tuba."

Can't have that.

In reply to various people down the thread, I'd offer that:

1. The passage of 19th C groups such as the Irish are not entirely comparable to the Mexican movements of recent decades. The closure of the frontier just plain makes a difference. A world where people could always head West, or where it remained "open" in the mind, is a very different place. Similarly with education. When most jobs were manual, to arrive "with nothing" is very different than a world where 12+ years of formal schooling is a baseline.

Yes, I'm aware there are still lots of jobs to be done, but the arrival of poorer, less educated Mexicans runs directly into the economic sectors occupied by a smaller subset of of the working class. This doesn't mean I'm against Mexican immigration, I simply concede that it's different. 

In the UK, you see this sort of thing much more blatantly, because the upper and middle classes do everything they possibly can to make sure that immigrants get moved into and integrated with working class communities. And I can tell you, if you move enormous numbers of visible minorities, often Muslim, into public housing in working class communities already facing massive unemployment which has lasted decades, and those communities have deeply entrenched local cultures, both the Anglos and the Immigrants....  you have a recipe for disaster.

Immigration need not be done this way, but the point is that it's never done in the abstract, there can be too many here or not enough there, too many of one type of trade not enough of another, difficult to do in some tightly-knit or racist local community, etc.   

2. I would LOVE to see more Mexicans in Canada, as we have such enormous numbers of Asian immigrants in some communities now that a bit more diversity might not be a bad idea. [Also, yes, we have too high a concentration of Scottish people in parts.] Besides, Anglo-Scots-Irish-German world is often just dead boring. Toronto has been nothing but improved by the move to becoming an incredibly culturally and ethnically mixed place. 

3. The argument that immigration has no impact on unemployment simply strikes me as absurd. I am entirely willing to accept - and I made this argument regularly in Manitoba, when they decided to vastly expand their immigration targets - that, long run, they will almost certainly boost the economy. Short-term, the key was how quickly they could reach a status where they would decide to taker out a mortgage and build a house.  And most immediately, what jobs or trades or occupations would they be doing, and was there ANY existing slack in the system, because that could spell trouble. 

To see how the argument fails in the short-term, simply ask yourself, how many millions would need to arrive before we'd see unemployment and underemployment in existing occupations? It's a simple, non-racist question, and it has some sort of answer. In real life, you have to monitor and adjust. 

3. The major issue in all this for me is... class. I hear from upper middle class liberals that they have no problem with more immigration. And they're often quick to tar those below as "racist" for shouting about it. I would argue it's because they often aren't yet under real personal economic pressure from the immigrants. 

4. And acanuck is wrong, Genghis is wrong, Des is wrong and KGB is wrong. These are the fundamentals, the sorts of principles Americans should lock onto during these difficult times. 

Just sayin'.

We have had massive (mostly legal) immigration in Miami in the last 50 years and the place is basically uninhabitable and ungovernable. The poor have suffered the most. And the environment.

Meanwhile, the E.U. has decided to crack down.