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    Crass Warfare

    By DF on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 3:38pm | Politics

    One interesting thing about the current American political climate is that you only ever seem to hear the phrase "class war" coming out of the mouths of those on the political right.  Predictably, talk of raising taxes on millionaires, which I regard as a political slam dunk that probably should have been a center-piece of Democratic politicking for some time now, has also raised cries of class warfare from the right of the political spectrum.

    President Obama addressed that claim today, but he did so by attempting to frame the debate as one of hard choices.  It's not class war, said he, it's simply math.  You can't keep the social programs Americans love and simultaneously reduce debt and deficits without new revenues.

    He's quite right about this, but what he could have said is, "Yes, class war is being waged in America and it's being won by those at the top."  My question is this: Do you perceive the same unwillingness on the left to own the notion of class war?  Why are there seemingly so few, especially among the Democratic leadership, that respond to accusations that their centrist policies amount to leftist class war by politely pointing to the fact that the U.S. Gini coefficient places us in the company of first-world powerhouses like Argentina?

    Don't get me wrong - I understand why Obama didn't do that today.  For one, it's apparently in his nature to avoid conflict, or at least to engage in it more tangentially than many of his contemporaries.  Additionally, he's probably been heavily counseled to to avoid any "eat the rich" rhetoric so as not to upset wealthy donors.

    But what about the rest of the party leadership?  Do you agree that Democrats seem strangely averse to pointing out that class war is being waged and won by the wealthiest?  Is it because this approach would be a political loser?  Is it because many in Congress are among the wealthiest 1% themselves?  What's your take?

    Topics: 
    Politics

    Comments

     

    Yes, Democratic politicians are loath to acknowledge that the class war has already been waged and won, by their own economic class.

    What, do you think they should say: 

    "Ha! Yes! It's been a glorious class war and we stomped you! Now please, I want your contributions and your vote for the 2012 election. Remember, it's me or those scary Republicans."

     

    by Red Planet on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 4:17pm

    Every time a home is foreclosed upon--especially per the use of illegal and fraudulent documents, a battle is won in the class war against the middle and the lower classes.

    Every time a homeowner receives news that his mortgage payment has doubled due to fine print in his mortgage documents, a battle is won against the middle and lower classes.

    Every time a poorer person is incarcerated for drug possession when an upper class member under similar circumstances would be freed on probation with his high priced attorney; a battle is won against the lower classes.

    Every time a multimillion dollar arena or mall is built with the use of Fifth Amendment privileges provided for government when the privilege is used to further the ambition of capitalists with taxpayer funds; a battle has been won against the middle and lower classes.

    Every single day class warfare is being waged upon the streets of this nation and most of the time the richer classes win, hands down.

    I have been writing about this fact for three years.

    IF WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING AND WRITING MAKES ME GUILTY OF CLASS WARFARE: BRING IT ON!

    Ha!

    I could not agree with you more!


    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 4:17pm

    Well, maybe it's like Casy says. A fella ain't got a soul of his own, just a little piece of a big soul - the one big soul that belongs to ever'body.

    Keep writing, Richard.


    by Red Planet on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 4:22pm

    I did a post on Joseph Campbell and Chief Seattle. We are all part and parcel of something bigger than ourselves!

    Always thank you Red for your support and encouragement!


    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 5:38pm

    That sure sounds like it came from Casey Agonistes...did you misspell the name, or have I misattributed?


    by jollyroger on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 7:09pm

    People do go to Jesus in this story, jr, but not on go-to-jesus carts.

    Those are Tom Joad's lines in the movie, just before he says "I'll be around in the dark. I'll be everywhere, wherever you can look. Wherever there's a fight so hungry people can eat, I'll be there..."

    These days, Tom is kind of like your Casey, though. If I don't try too hard, I can almost see him wherever I see people occupying Wall Street, or protesting oil pipelines in front of the White House.

    Maybe he'll come back.


    by Red Planet on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 8:56pm

    stab me & sink me! Exposed for the iliterate I am.

    by jollyroger on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:46pm

    lol


    by Red Planet on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 1:23am

    The Pres speaks the truth when he says it is just math, simple math, if you want to keep your services and pay off the bills caused by two wars and an increase in anti-terror spending, inevitably means taxes must be increased. It is plain and simple math, and I think it is the better hand to play electing not to personalize motives of the other side. That is the one and only tactic the other side has, is the one that demonizes every motive by boiling it down to.. class warfare and socialism and anti-captialism, hopefully people understand the fact that we simply cannot continue to run our government without adequate funding.  Isn't it a lame, retro argument that the President or Dem's are employing class warfare? It would be lame, except that it is always used to derail the conversation we need to have about raising revenue. American's in general want to keep well established government administered programs running. Somehow I think people get that, hell my own Dad finally said out loud that he is perfectly willing to pay taxes at a higher rate in order to maintain what is great about America. Maybe not pitting us against each other in the long run wins the argument, because we come together as a people to pull ourselves out of the hole we built for ourselves. Simple math, people get, if I don't have enough money, I have to do something to either get more money or spend less, I think people fundamentally understand that concept.  Most people ultimately don't want to cripple the government. Now, let's see how Republicans answer this... I say they go nuts and try to kill the economy even more.


    by tmccarthy0 on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 6:02pm

    I think it is high time Obama endorses a position on tax increases for the wealthy that polls have shown for some time is supported by 70% of the population. I think he has highlighted the two options. More taxes or the destruction of the middle class. That's a clear choice. As far as class warfare, I read a good comment recently: "Since when it is unfair to throw the hand grenade back over the fence?"


    by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 6:25pm

    I hereby render unto Anonymous the Dayly Line of the Year Award for this here Dagblog Site, given to all of him (?) from all of me for this GEM OF GEMS:

    "Since when it is unfair to throw the hand grenade back over the fence?"

    Incredible!!!!!!

     
     

    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 6:34pm

    Because I'm vain and will probably never receive such an award again, I'll own up to lobbing in that phrase even though it isn't original with me. I thought the comment was a classic, glad you liked it.

     


    by Oxy Mora on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:31pm

    Ah Oxa for heaven sakes. This is one of the best lines I have ever read! hahahaha

    So, it is easy to render unto Oxa the Dayly Line of the Year Award to Oxa at this here Dagblog Site, given to all of him from all of me.

    Oxa, at least I can lend your name to my quote. hahahahahahahahahaha


    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:54pm

    Class war, per se, was never a progressive rhetorical theme. Progressives politicians used to speak much more frequently and forcefully about protecting the poor from the predatory tactics of the rich and powerful, but the term "class war" was a perversion of Marxist ideas coined by conservatives in the early 1900s to attack progressives. They would disparage labor strikes, for example, by labeling them class wars.

    Conservatives have continued to apply the class war label any progressive economic initiative. Unfortunately, it has been an effective tactic, and most liberal politicians have avoided rhetoric that smacks of class conflict for decades.

    In view of the recession and growing economic disparities, I think that progressives could and should reclaim the language of protecting the poor and middle class from rich. Bernie Sanders is openly embracing such language, and even Obama has been vaguely hinting at it.

    But I think that the language needs to be updated to resonate with contemporary Americans. In the early 1900s, America had distinct socio-economic groups with a strong sense of self-identity--workers and farmers. The two groups aligned to challenge a third relatively distinct group--management.

    The socio-economic divisions are much less determinate now. Service industry workers, factory laborers, farm laborers, and underemployed young people don't naturally identify with one another, and the rich--a mixture of white collar professionals, business owners, financiers, celebrities, and rich heirs--are faceless, diffuse, and unthreatening.

    In fact, conservatives have been far more effective at manufacturing "class consciousness" by exploiting religion, race, education, geography, and culture. People like Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and Rick Perry have been very good at presenting themselves as the representatives of the average American, in contrast to the allegedly secular, East Coast, non-white elites.

    Progressives have to do more than argue that they represent voters' economic interests. They have to foster a new language of class identity that resonates in the 21st century. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what that would be.


    by Michael Wolraich on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 6:58pm

    In view of the recession and growing economic disparities, I think that progressives could and should reclaim the language of protecting the poor and middle class from rich. Bernie Sanders is openly embracing such language, and even Obama has been vaguely hinting at it.

    YES YES YES!

    I already discussed the new rules.

    Just keep harping about the loss of the Middle Class.

    On the other hand:

    "Since when it is unfair to throw the hand grenade back over the fence?"

    hahahahahahahahahh


    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 7:03pm

    REDISTRIBUTION, REDISTRIBUTION, REDISTRIBUTION

    Why can't the left attack fire with fire?

    Ask the religious right "What was the message of the Sermon on the Mount" 

    ASK THEM,

    ASK BOEHNER, WHY IS IT HE SUPPORTS THOSE WHO WOULD HOARD WHILE OTHERS SUFFER.

    ASK HIM, WHAT DID THE CHRIST MEAN, WHEN HE SAID IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR A RICH MAN TO ENTER?  Could it be because the rich man didn't want to part with his riches, he didn't want to pay taxes? He didn't want to help anyone, but himself?

    What do you say Republican leader?   

    Ask them "are you not the hypocrites HE warned us about?

    When he had his disciples walk amongst the crowd and passed the basket to gather provisions, was that not a REDISTRIBUTION?

    Redistribution is not a socialist term;  it is a Christian value,

    ASK THEM  How can you salve your conscience when you see so many of your own neighbors suffering, while you have plenty?

    SHAME THEM..........THEY HAVE NO CONSCIENCE  

    Selfishness is not a Christian value, seeing our neighbors hungry and without medical care is a test. A test, not for the wicked, but for so called Christians.  WWJD

    It is apparent that the so called  Christian Right; is so wrong for America. They are the sheep in wolves clothing we were warned about.  

    Expecting those who have more to share with those who have less.

    Right in their faces, "and you call yourself a Christian"

    Let them defend their position; put them on the defensive; not the REDISTRIBUTIONIST.

    ASK THEM, ............WHAT IS MERCY?  

    REDISTRIBUTION, REDISTRIBUTION, REDISTRIBUTION

    It's not class warfare, it's a Christian value.

    The only warfare we're going to engage in; good against evil


    by Resistance on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:18pm

    the right response: when he gave the sermon on the mount jesus was high on mushrooms

    by jollyroger on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:20pm

    That version will never separate the voting bloc of the Religious Right from the Republicans.

    It'll only strengthen their resolve, to back the party that doesn't attack their leader.

    To win, I believe we need their (leader) to set matters straight.

    They don't fear Democrats, they fear him that is coming.

    He says they're hypocrites. That's why he's coming.

    Fear can work for US.    

    A Christian who votes for one of these Republicans, is no Christian.


    by Resistance on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:40pm

    A for effort


    by Michael Wolraich on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:32pm

    Why have Democrats conceded to their enemies the choice of rhetorical field of battle? My guess is because most of them are unprincipled, self-serving pussies. Politics is a game to them, and the last thing they want is emerge bloodied. If they called things as they are -- an aggressive war waged by the wealthiest and most powerful against the poorest and weakest -- voters might actually demand they go into all-out battle on their behalf. Someone might get hurt, possibly themselves.

    The other factors you suggest also play a role. Class war is a Marxist term; nobody wants to get tarred with being called a socialist at election time. And congressmen themselves are often among the exploiting class, as are their most influential donors. They've absorbed the ethos that rule by the elite is the natural state of affairs, as is gross income inequality. They believe much of what Republicans do, with maybe a little more compassion thrown in.

    But mostly it's because they're chickenshit pussies.

     


    by acanuck on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 7:41pm

    MEOW!


    by Richard Day on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 7:54pm

    Republicans have burrowed deep inside the Democratic head on this issue for years.  It really goes all the way back to the McCarthy era and before, but it intensified following the fall of the Soviet block.  Democratic politicians act like terrified political prisoners, dreading exile or the blacklist, always looking over their shoulders to make sure no Conservative Commissar from the GOP-KGB catches them saying something with a even vaguely socialistic redolence.  They're so depressingly beaten and intimidated, even before they step into the ring!

    Professional Democratic politicians and their mercenary handlers have spent so many years cramming left-wing policies into right-wing rhetorical packaging that they don't even seem to know what they think anymore.  And the politicians have also spent so much time defending the disappearing gains of the past that they seem to have lost track of any vision of the future, or even remember why they are defending the old gains.  I am shocked that when Republicans call Social Security a Ponzi scheme, so many Democratic politicians either mumble something apologetically defensive or remain silent, and can't bring themselves to mount a spirited and passionate defense of the philosophy of social solidarity, equality and cooperative national teamwork that stands behind programs like Social Security.

    Social Security is one of the greatest legislative achievements ever!  The whole idea of it - that Americans who are still young and fit, and can work and produce, patriotically share part of what they produce with the retired fellow-countrymen who worked hard before them to build the country we all live in, and that this system is passed forward from generation to generation - that just strikes me as an awesome and spine-tinglingly inspiring idea.  It's like the plot of a feel-good flick about togetherness and teamwork triumphing over adversity - it's the Hoosiers of social legislation!  Democrats should celebrate its enactment into law like they celebrate the "I Have a Dream" speech, and argue joyfully for its expansion!

    That's just one example of where so many of our national leaders no longer seem capable of expressing the heart and philosophy behind the policies they defend.

    My wife was telling me today about one of her students at the private college where she teaches.  The girl's parents - mother and step-father - both work in corrections.  The step-father is a prison guard and the mother is a prison nurse - in the same prison.  They literally get spat on all the time.  The environment in which they work is a sort of hell-on-earth, filled with embittered, dangerous and desperate men.  Imagine the accumulation of stress and depression from that place of coercive control, hairtrigger tempers, constant vigilance and pervasive human hopelessness!

    And yet the girl says her parents, though always filled with the anxieties of their job and susceptible to dismal moods, are very good to her.  --  And it's her step-father, mind you, not her natural father. -- They work hard and have managed to send their girl to a very nice college.  And their one command to her is that she do everything she can to avoid having jobs like they have.

    Now they are state employees.  They probably have decent pay and benefits - even in the tightwad state of New Hampshire.  But even that life is now being stolen from people like them every day - and from librarians and teachers and construction workers and police officers and all kinds of other people - as the Republican Party with its sick, anti-social philosophy of greed, radical individualism, punishment of the unfortunate, neglect of the unemployed, disdain for the sick and protection of the wealthy rampages through the country and its state and federal government agencies, legislatures and departments.

    While this is going on we have to listen to greedy, supercilious, gazillionaire twerps like Jamie Dimon - a representative of the august and spectacularly well-compensated profession that blew up the economy in a carnival of flim-flam in 2007 and 2008, and then cashed out with their money and ran - whining about how his bank can't make enough money if we impose capital requirements on them, and about how he has to start charging us more in swipe fees so he can afford to pay his own salary.  He gets his own private sit-down with the president of the United States.  The rest of us get to buy a ticket for a goofy "meet-the-President" raffle.

    These kinds of things make me tremble with outrage lately.  And I know lots and lots of ordinary Democrats who feel the same way.   But where are our leaders!   Where is the passion in the Democratic Party's national political leadership?   Where is the rage for justice and decency?  Who are these people?


    by Dan Kervick on Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:30pm

    Jesus, Dan. If you will run for office, I swear to God that I will drop everything I'm doing and campaign for you.


    by Red Planet on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 1:29am

    I second that motion.


    by Resistance on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:14am

    Jamie Dimon is not a representative. He is an individual human being.He may be good or bad, I don't know. And probably you don't .

    Class warfare is wrong because it deprives individual human beings of their right to be considered as individuals.

     

    I, and probably you , know  wealthy people who are compassionate and progressive , and like Buffett in favor of increasing the marginal tax rates that will affect them..And there are others like the Koch Brothers who are doing great harm and should be condemned , not because they are rich but because they are bad.

     And I  know lower income people who are mean racists.

    Being poor doesn't make you good, being rich doesn't make you bad. 

    Class warfare is evil like all other warfares .

    Of course the tax code should  be  restored to what it was under Ike. Because that's necessary to afford the services the Government should- or rather  which  I would like it to- provide including a National Health Service like I have enjoyed in several foreign countries, and well financed public schools  with well paid teachers, and unemployment compensation which is a right not a grudging hand out, and public works programs which offset the job loss in depression And  we should re-impose  tariffs so mean that things that can be made in America are made here.

     Class warfare  reduces the probability of all that by reducing the  number of people who are willing to support  it.Kicking someone in the shins is not a recruiting tactic.

    If you're starting a  Class War,  Hell No I won't go.

     


    by Flavius on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 9:41am

    Hell No I won't go.

    Hell yes, they made us go........to Vietnam  

    Because we weren't a senator’s son.

    Our names weren't  Bush, who got assigned to guard duty or Cheney who got a deferment.

    They were in a different class...... ification.

    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

    "The feudal barons of the Middle Ages, the economic predecessors of the capitalists of our day, declared all wars. And their miserable serfs fought all the battles. The poor, ignorant serfs had been taught to revere their masters; to believe that when their masters declared war upon one another, it was their patriotic duty to fall upon one another and to cut one another's throats for the profit and glory of the lords and barons who held them in contempt. And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles. The master class has had all to gain and nothing to lose, while the subject class has had nothing to gain and all to lose — especially their lives.........

    "Deny it as may the cunning capitalists who are clear-sighted enough to perceive it, or ignore it as may the torpid workers who are too blind and unthinking to see it, the struggle in which we are engaged today is a class struggle, and as the toiling millions come to see and understand it and rally to the political standard of their class, they will drive all capitalist parties of whatever name into the same party, and the class struggle will then be so clearly revealed that the hosts of labor will find their true place in the conflict and strike the united and decisive blow that will destroy slavery and achieve their full and final emancipation."

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

    ** It's not class warfare when you pick up the grenade they threw  and you lob it back over the fence towards where it came from.


    by Resistance on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 10:32am

    I was walking across the Parade Ground one bitter winter evening with X. Coming back from camp library. I asked him why he was not going to OCS. He said, ' I'm not sure I can handle combat, I don't want anyone else depending on me'.

    I went to OCS; he went to Korea at a very bad time.

    Years later I saw a reference to him  as the head of Wall Street against ..... the Republican President of the day. I was at  the bank one day and my host pointed X out to me in awed tones. I said actually I already know him and over my objections I was dragged down to meet him.

    After a minute he remembered me. I reminded him of his comment crossing the parade ground. He said, ' the second time I had to take my platoon leader back to the chaplain, I stopped worrying about myself.'

    He's not my enemy or yours. I ain't throwing any grenades back at him. He looks like a duck and walks like a duck. But there are ducks and there are ducks.


    by Flavius on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 10:52am

    Flavius, I like you story about the Banker guy. What always impresses me about folks like that is how fast they are on their feet in an impromptu situation. That's what makes them leaders and why I finally discovered that competing with guys like that in a corporate structure was not for me.

    I'm not sure I understand your comments about class warfare and the ideal class structure. Doesn't it take some class warfare right now to get to that ideal structure--or if we ever had it before, to get back to it?

     


    by Oxy Mora on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 1:34pm

     

    Flavius, class warfare is wrong, but you are eliding the fact that the war is on, and the great majority of us are already on the losing side. That some of the winners are okay guys, too, and some of the losers are not, is irrelevant.

    cf.— Arjuna's Dilemma (The Bhagavad Gita).

    Time to fight back.

     


    by Red Planet on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 2:43pm

    Yes we have to fight back.

    But stay clear headed while we do it.

    Confess: we think the tea partiers are ill-informed, muddled thinkers. And the rich are evil and selfish. Trouble is, resorting to those generalization is ... ill informed and muddled.

     

    Talk to enough of the tea partiers and you'll find that along with some very unappealing people there are also some that are attractive human beings. Yes, they're ill-informed but the cure for that is to inform them.

    Talk to enough of the rich and you'll find that along with people who fit that description, there are some who agree with us completely and some who put us to shame by the good things they do.

    A majority? Hell no. A majority probably fit the image we have of them. But Paul Touch's book Whatever it takes (I think) about Geoffrey Canada and his Harlem project describes the involvement of a couple of famous, and rich, Venture Capitalists. Not just in writing checks, but taking the time to be involved in the project and advising Canada. I'm not ready to go to Class Warfare against those guys.

    I can even confess that one of my children is a banker who'd be affected by the repeal of the Bush tax cuts. She seems like a pretty nice person to me. If we're declaring war with her I think I'll opt to drive an ambulance.


    by Flavius on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 12:26am

     

    They've absorbed the ethos that rule by the elite is the natural state of affairs, as is gross income inequality.

    This, imo, is the heart of the problem. Our class divisions have become ingrained.

     


    by Oxy Mora on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 12:58pm

    Please note that it is 13.5 months to a general election, and President Obama's political base has had two and a half years of his administration dancing to the tune of Wall Street. There will not be a tax increase on millionaires. The president and his "millionaire" backers  know this and are playing the liberal left for their votes in 2012. After the election it will be back to business as usual. Though after the election look for the administration to to concede cuts in the entitlement programs with minimal tax increases.

     

    Ed OShea


    by Ed OShea (not verified) on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 12:10pm

    What brainless twits gave Bush; Authorization to use military force, and at the same time thought, cutting taxes was a good idea? 

    We have known for years, the deficit problem needed to be addressed.

    We knew years before Bush, so called "entitlements" would be threatened.

    Now it's "OMG;  to balance the budget we must cut into the safety net"

    The democrats will play good cop and the republicans can play bad cop.

    But both parties knew this day was coming. The democrats screwed us over when they didn't exact a price to be paid to support the war.  

    They chose war ............on (Socialism) the peoples safety net.

    The capitalists want Wall street to administer a program of financial security as opposed to Social Security.

    The capitalist's democratic wing agrees.

    They'll pretend they care and that they really wanted to protect it; but we know it was all show.

    Their actions speak louder than words.

    The lesson learned? Don't ever authorize the use of military force unless you can pay for it, the safety net is not Congress' piggy bank, it's the peoples insurance program.

    Congress, find your own money to finance your wars and the deficits you run. 


    by Resistance on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 4:30pm

    I often disagree with you in part, and occasionally across the board. This time my only cavil is with

    They'll pretend they care and that they really wanted to protect it; but we know it was all show.

    My same old plaint: it's too broad. Dunno what the % is. Maybe 90%. But they don't all pretend. Of course is it 90%  is it worth my objecting that you shouldn't say 'all'?

    Yeah.

    If we're going to be intellectually respectable we have to mean what we say . Not almost mean it.


    by Flavius on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:56pm


    by Donal on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:52am

    'This is not class warfare, it's math': "Which is unfortunate, because America is way better at warfare than math."

    - Seth Meyers, tonight


    by LisB on Sun, 09/25/2011 - 2:33am

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