Coming February 6, 2024 . . .
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Pre-order at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
Coming February 6, 2024 . . . MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Pre-order at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
This:
reminded me of THIS. I'm a believer, I think it works on all kinds of tribes: ethnic/racial and other sociological, class-based, religious, ideological, political...of course there are always the outliers who it doesn't work on because they refuse to see the other as human because they have a lot invested in something else, like victimhood or privilege or specialness. Not suprisingly, those types often haven't read much literature or fiction.
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/18/2019 - 8:16pm
Are you implying Steinbeck was pulling at our heart strings, lobbying in his own clever way?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 09/18/2019 - 10:02pm
It is 2019. It is sad that marginalized groups are still waiting for whites to recognize the humanity of the “other”.
James Baldwin 1965
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/11-james-baldwin-quotes-on-race-that-reso...
The media, politicians, and co-workers constantly remind you that you are not accepted as the norm. You have to convince whites that you are human.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 3:27pm
You won that battle in 1965 - why still going round the mulberry bush? Sure there are people who don't accept it, but hardly a majority.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 3:43pm
It is 2019. We have a white nationalist telling women of color to go back to where they came from. The same racist argued that Obama was not born in the United States. The GOP is suppressing votes.
The battle continues.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:17pm
this story is not about the GOP suppressing votes and it has very little do with born American citizens who have African heritage, slave or not. It is about how one can see someone from totally different culture, country and even language as having things in common and gaining empathy for them by starting out with a commonality like that.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 10:36pm
I think it is more the other way around right now. A descriptive like 'deplorables" doesn't suggest looking for the human side of "the other" in order to connect.
I also think it's unfortunate that we can't connect with James Baldwin to see what he thinks of the current zeitgeist as opposed to 1965.He'd probably have some very interesting opinions and I have this inkling that they might not be considered politically correct.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 5:06pm
p.s. link for PP: see twitter thread of PHD work trying to figure out what happened some time after 1965
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 5:20pm
*HALF*. She was reaching out to people's better natures. "We know you're not like those other boys doing all those bad things - come back to the light, stay on the good side - and we have to understand you"
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 6:27pm
ROTFLMFAO.
Oh wait, you're serious. Ok lets look at this seriously.
There are many different ethnic groups that seem to be human i.e. Homo Sapiens. Are they in fact all the same species? Biologists use three basic criterion. Can they interbreed. Does it produce offspring. Are the offspring fertile. That the offspring are fertile is an important point. Horses and donkeys can interbreed and produce offspring but the offspring, called mules, are rarely fertile. Horses and donkeys are closely related but different species.
All the different ethnic groups can interbreed, produce offspring, and the offspring is almost always fertile. Therefore we can be sure, as a matter of science, that they are all Humans, Homo Sapiens.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 5:48pm
From the article
You don't read very well, do you?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:08pm
Fuck you. The article isn't the bible and you aren't jesus christ. I've never read an article that I agreed with 100%. And I almost never agree with you. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand. Usually disagreeing with you is the only sensible position to take.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:31pm
The purpose of the project is to humanize marginalized people. Marginalized people have to be entertainers to be accepted as human. The project may be successful, but it puts the power to define humanity in the hands of white people. Your rant does not change that fact.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:58pm
You calling your opinion a fact doesn't make it a fact. But you have never been able to tell the difference between an opinion and a fact.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 8:08pm
Huh? Wtf are you talking about?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 11:48pm
In 1987 from Wikipedia entry for James Baldwin:
Nall in photo illustration from In France, an Artist’s Retreat @ NYTimes.com, Oct. 6, 2009
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:04pm
Is a wonderful example!
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:09pm
Nall did not need an outside force to make Baldwin human. Nall educated himself. The program being discussed argues that the way to humanize marginalized people is to have them tell entertaining stories to whites.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:14pm
that's one very strange way of seeing "the program being discussed." Sickening, actually. Common humanity is the stuff of daily life. Like what's in Shakespeare, Dickens and your latest Beyonce tune, Bollywood movies, telenovas, romance novels, chick flicks and band of brothers movies. You just like segregation and tribalism don't you, you think people from different tribes don't share a damn thing? Nothing in common. Totally different species that can't even calm each other, always competing for scraps and grievance, survival of the fittest tribe....
Edit to add: Baldwin and Nall got to know each other at the local bar. Daily life. Nall says he learned from Baldwin's stories. Many of those were fiction. Some even had only white homosexual characters, go figure.
Example: Everyone has a mother. Everyone's mother eventually dies. Everyone can share something like that, not a silly story. Start there if you can't see what we are talking about. Then move on to a lover who cheats on you....
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:30pm
oh and now I am reminded, because it fits in here, of how you seem to have a distrust of the whole concept of the common good
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:24pm
Check out the latest Back to School Special kids with different skin colors, all with the same fear. Something they share, good school/bad school/mediocre school, urban and rural. Which brings to mind that I've never seen you show any interest in that topic, maybe because it's not an Afro-American tribe only grievance?
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 7:35pm
AA, marginalized people are human. Why is humanity .not taken as a given? The project requires marginalized people to convince whites that marginalized people are human. Baldwin knew that he was human, he did not require affirmation from Nall. Baldwin and Nall accepted each other as human without any action by the other. The project requires marginalized people to perform an action that proves their humanity.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 8:08pm
The author claims that's necessary. You agree with her. But she states it as a premise and moves on. She never makes the case with evidence that supports that opinion. Neither do you. You just assume it's a fact. It's not. It's an opinion that must be supported by evidence. While I find her methods to change people's way of thinking interesting I disagree with her opinion that what she's doing is proving these people are human or that white society for the most part doesn't see them as human.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 8:23pm
you clearly have no clue and no reading comprehension about what's even being discussed here. For crying aloud, you are misinterpreting one tiny point and making a big deal about it. it doesn't say they have to be entertainers, it's sharing of celeb news as a commonality in this day and age, i.e., people everywhere know Beyonce's latest and have an opinion about it, it is something they could share to begin talking to each other about and thereby see something human in "the other" Just like fiction or a play or a soap opera does. I dare say you don't understand cultural issues at all. It's not even worth discussing with you, you are so off on another planet, so ready to read offense into something you don't even seem to understand. Is very sad. End of interaction, sorry I even tried.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:14pm
Here's one more try: You like wine. White people like wine. You talk over wine tasting. You see each other as human. Get it? Doh. Goodbye.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:16pm
Instead of living in 1965, how about dealing with a) the article I posted and b) the solution it proposes as an alternative to business as usual.
I've wondered how cops can be filmed punching and banging a black guy's head into the pavement over and over without immediate outrage from police themselves and even cutting through the usual conservative v liberal/GOP v Dem framing, as just 1 of many alarming examples.
I don't eat meat. To me, most ways of treating feed animals are pretty abhorrent and obviously cruel. But for people who eat meat, any objection is immediately subconsciously viscerally countered with "yeah, but we have to do it - how else will we get meat? And yeah, it sure tastes good". So screaming at them that meat is murder is useless - they've accepted murdering livestock is a cherished worthy thing to do. Even letting them get to know the animal islargely useless - we as humans know that livestock pets and friends will be slaughtered despite their gooey endearing eyes.
But with humans, the abattoir is not a foregone conclusion, though the kneejerk predefined reactions are there. How to tell the background story of the guy on the ground, how to make that Black or Hispanic immigrant a Pilgrim or first settler at Williamsburg with all the respect or at least acceptance that goes with it, how to make them real people with a tale and a family and love and values and anecdotes and worth, rather than a statistic and a shadow of yet another stereotype and culture war, or an oft overhyped and misleading economic and/or cultural threat?
Little old white ladies love these romantic tales, old shriveled white men are suckers for personalized rags-to-riches-or at least survival tales. Why not give them some, rather than the continued insistence of "you must let us in, you have to treat us right", with the contempt for the message's audience. Turn the guy on the ground or waiting at the border from cattle to an underdog worth rooting for, helping, going out of our way for. What's their Clint Eastwood, tear-jerker role?
I had to laugh at the lates outbreak of Cgris Matthews said 'colored'" Clint had this in a film, black couple broke down in the desert, he this old white drug mule stops to help them but uses the archaic expression "you colored people", not out of meannewss but of old habit, and they're ready to go ballistic. Educate the other to think exactly like you? Or educate the other to first acknowledge your existence, right to exist, value of your day to day struggles and needs and then views? What's the real achievable goal here?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 12:22am
Just ran across, struck me that we can learn from other species: Squirrels Relax When They Hear Birds Relaxing
I've always felt that "outrage" begets mainly: outrage. But perhaps that's the way I'm built neurologically. Certainly the last thing outrage in the written word does for me is inspire.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 5:12pm
Birds are evil and I'm convinced the squirrels help them. I hike almost every day, sometimes with a rifle. When I don't have a rifle I'll see deer and javalina everywhere. But when I have a gun, nothing. I'm sure the squirrels and the birds report on me when I leave the house. Once I had no gun and a bear crossed my path. It reached down to some mud at it's feet and drew a bulls eye on it's chest. Then it danced right in front of me. Luckily I got a video of it.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:15pm
Actually, I've long thought squirrels to be basically evil, but I am interested in learning about anything that might manipulate their behavior in my favor and away from my window boxes and outdoor pots. Since it's clear that we will never be able to "kill them all." Forced relocation doesn't work either, been there, done that, I have a HavAHart trap that has seen much use over the years and they just keep coming....they will bury those nuts wherever they damn well please, it seems, whether it's their property or not...
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:22pm
Squirrels are evil. One year back when I was gardening. I planted two rows of corn every week until I had 14 rows. They were growing so beautiful, best year ever for corn. As the ears formed on the first two rows I waited with anticipation for them to ripen. Before they were ripe enough for people the squirrels ate every single ear. A week later before the next two rows were ripe the squirrels ate every single ear. And so on. I harbor a deep hatred of squirrels.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:34pm
That was your corn, you didn't just grow it, you babied it for a whole season, made sure it had everything it needed, watched it come to maturity and offer you back a gift as its rightful parent. And the lazy ass squirrels just came and stole it, gorged themselves on ill gotten plunder. Probably destroyed the whole plants and left ears they didn't even eat, left half bitten on the ground. That's the way I see it.
And they're stupid, they steal and wreck stuff they don't even like. They'll take a bite off a tomato and throw it on the ground because they don't like the taste. Worse than rats, I tell ya. I'm real prejudiced. Especially the red ones--they are vicious and arrogant.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 11:15pm
waay off thread, or maybe not, for what it's worth, your video reminded me of the wasting time side of Twitter addiction, here's a whole bunch of Soviets dancing like bears, but set to more current music:
https://twitter.com/communistbops
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:31pm
Interesting though I'd rather they used the original Russian music
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 9:38pm
me too. And I'd be willing to go with remix from the original, but I think his taste in dance music is pretty sucky. But the videos he's got are fabulous.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 11:06pm
I would like to return to what Tom Sullivan was talking about in his post on Hullabaloo. And hopefully raise the level of the discussion a little to the point he is making and remove it from the single myopic focus of Afro-American citizens grievance against American white citizens privilege or not. Which is not at all the same thing because those are all Americans.
{Forgive me but I feel I need to bring up some inconvenient points as examples for a correspondent on this thread: I think there are actually some subset of Afro-Americans in L.A. who have called Iranian or Arab immigrants towel heads, and I have seen examples displayed in Afro-American movies. I think there are Afro-Americans who have resentment against Chinese immigrants taking up places at colleges, because they are not Americans of long standing. I think there are Afro-American soldiers in Afghanistan who may think of Taliban as less than human. The problems of Afro-Americans are not at all the point here! Perhaps the problems of how African Americans treat African immigrants to the U.S. might apply, that would be more apropos.]
It was as regards the case of foreign refugees and migrants who wished to come to Australia being stuck in faraway godawful camps which dehumanized them. And many Australians dug in their heels about letting these people in, wanting to keep Australia for Australians already acclimated to Australian culture and these foreigners being in camps some of which were quite brutal, just dehumanized them further, as people very easy to turn down for entry.
The group that Sullivan is writing about found that it was much easier to convince current Australians (of all colors) to accept the foreigners as new citizens if they spoke about mundane, common human stories. To prove basically to the gut reaction of Australians that "they are just like us" and they wouldn't be so hard to live with, they will not change the culture but assimilate to it. Whereas seeing them in the dehumanizing camps made them seem like different, desperate scary people with griveances and perhaps political axes to grind about their old country. Hence, a story about being tortured in prison is not a good "sell." It's still a scary person from a scary culture, someone that might be so fucked up that they may never assimilate. Whereas if they can talk some pop culture, or some human commonality about loving their family, they seem more real and less frightening.
Now take that point and step it up some. Let's talk about Australian culture! And how it differs from others. And what is normal to it. I just ran across this wonderfully complex and nuanced post by a person with black skin in Australia, who explains how it is not the same as being an Australian black, and incredibly, it is in response to gaffes along these lines by Roxane Gay in her visit to that country, being an American and not understanding how Australian culture might differ:
Are there Black people in Australia?’
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 11:17pm
I remember Black Ethiopians were none too pleased to be lumped in with every other Black group in America. How many identities does the Melting Pot (tm) have room for?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/19/2019 - 11:53pm
My gut reaction to what you are bringing up is: it's a bit of progress when skin color has nothing to do with it! If identity gets delinked from race and splinters into ever smaller identity groups, eventually we'll get to: individual identity, which to my mind is: the only rational way to be! That's my druthers, but ask a shrink, I'll bet they'll agree. Lot of mental anguish and toxicity in this world is due to DNA-related tribalism, otherwise known as familial ties Your father's and grandfather's pieties and sins: bah. They can betray worse than any other. And geez, skin color, it has nothing to do with nothing.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 2:03am
And there's a lot of stereotyping based on skin color - Ethiopians are not much like Nigerians are not much like Jamaicans. How does it help to lunp them all in together?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 3:43am
It's like The Guardian reads Digby's blog (wisely deciding to go with pictures instead of words)
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 12:50am
Dehumanize doesn't necessarily mean that we view them as less than human. It's just means subjecting them to degrading or demeaning conditions. It can mean both, as in Nazi Germany where Jews were both treated brutally and considered less than human. But dehumanize is often used to refer to conditions that are brutal without considering those so treated as less than human. The first time I remember encountering the word it referred to factory work as dehumanizing. But those mostly white workers at the time weren't considered part of a subhuman race. Jail is often referred to as a dehumanizing situation yet we don't think of prisoners as subhuman.
We've spent too much time focusing on this small point from the article because rmrd has latched onto it. Imo conflating the degrading conditions of these immigrant camps with seeing them as less than human was a small flaw in an otherwise interesting article. I thought of the article as examples of how one can awaken compassion in people by highlighting similarities between people. One can awaken compassion that can lead to changes in brutal conditions while still having people wanting to restrict immigration. I think that's closer to many people's view. Many want to control immigration, see the immigrants as human beings in distress, and would like them to be treated with compassion, humanly. Dehumanize was a poor word choice since it is so easily conflated with viewing the other as less than human.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 2:04pm
Yes, appreciating you spending time on refocusing, especially appreciate pointing out the complexities of meaning in "dehumanize." (Actually got me thinking how even hate does not necessarily always equal dehumanizing, you can hate someone you consider an equal or superior!)
You are correct, I think, to point out that about Americans not liking dehuminization as a technique, a majority Americans of the mid-to-late 20th C for the most part don't like to dehumanize even those they detained as enemies much less immigrants. There was great pride in the exceptionalist idea that we were supposedly the humanest victors in WWII, hence all the outrage and distress over things like the Mylai massacre and torture during the Iraq years. Like to be known as the good guy, not the scary guy. I would also throw in here the stereotype of the overly friendly and talkative American in jaded Europe, a stereotype that most Americans weren't ashamed to be labeled with. It is that same kind of friendly chatter about commonalities of entertainment, or boyfriend or children woes in the beauty parlor, that we are talking about as humanizing.
Good point about factory workers, too. I think of how it was a downfall of 1970's lefties and hippies like myself to think of them as dehumanized nicompoops, slaves to the man (rise up you've got nothing to lose but your chains...yadda yadda) That was often counter productive, they were proud of themselves and their jobs. Perhaps part of humanizing is a willingness to share weakness/troubles/problems with the other, that is where empathy grows. Not sympathy, empathy. Sympathy is an unequal situation.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/20/2019 - 9:39pm