Kenosha Shooting 2, Kyle Rittenhouse

    How a pudgy 17 year-old aspiring cop-to-be's life changed in a few minutes one hot summer night. So what happened? Best play-by-play media report so far of the event:




    On the night of Tuesday, August 25, protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin became violent leading to the death of two individuals. 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse faces six charges including first degree intentional homicide. Investigative reporter Emmanuelle Saliba used footage from that night collected by NBC News's Social Newsgathering Team to piece together what happened. Warning: the footage is graphic and may be disturbing.



    Another video:

    Kyle Rittenhouse - Let's talk facts in the Kenosha Wisconsin shooting from a Lawyer's standpoint



    That guy is excellent. He's thought about all the angles, he really does think like the best jury trial lawyers. I especially like how he said he didn't think a lot of 40 year olds have the maturity to deal with a protest/riot, much less a 17 yr. old, that he didn't like the idea of kids even being at these things, but then he threw in this zinger: on the other hand doesn't bother us to send 18 yr. olds to fight overseas. Then he also throws in: everybody there was illegal, there was a curfew. Appreciate you sharing, think he's got a new fan.

    P.S. the great thing about people like this is that they cut off a lot of the time-consuming bullshit debate that I don't enjoy. He starts and finishes the whole debate in one swoop so you skip to the real nitty gritty.

    He really was excellent in presenting what evidence was available. Happy you appreciated that, too.


    WOKE? Trump wants blood running in the streets. Doesn't matter who's, as long as it's not him.

    "5/30/20 - 'No Blame?' ABC News finds 54 cases invoking 'Trump' in connection with violence, threats, alleged assaults.    President Donald Trump insists he deserves no blame for divisions in America.

    "I think my rhetoric brings people together," Trump said last year, four days after a 21-year-old allegedly posted an anti-immigrant screed online and then allegedly opened fire at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, killing 22 and injuring dozens of others. "

    WOKE Yet?

    Biden Says Trump Is ‘Rooting for More Violence’ Amid Kenosha Unrest link

    A little information on the guy "cutting to the chase" on YouTube they praise above.

    Collins Iyare Idehen Jr.(born 1983), better known as Colion Noir, is an American gun rights activist, lawyer, and host of the web seriesNOIR. He has over 121 million views and over 1,470,000 subscribers to his YouTube channel as of July 2020.

    In 2013, the National Rifle Association (NRA) recruited him to appear in NRA News videos in subsequent months. Later that year, he appeared at its convention in Houston. Since then, he has become the NRA's "most prominent black commentator," as The Guardian described him in 2017.As of July 2019, Noir is no longer associated with the NRA since they changed to a different advertising agency.

    Again with the ad hominem.

    Why can you not separate what is said from who says it?


    Your comment made me lol, Emma. What are you trying to do? Change the local culture? Cutting out ad hominem would be putting a muzzle on most of dag. 


    Why is it ad hominem to add more info about the lawyer-gun rights analyst? Isn't "guy who offers convincing reason around position we'd normally disagree with" what we hope to find in all our chit-chat? If only Lulu'd find short to-the-point convincing videos to share, or articles that convince rather than dodgy Consortium and VIP stuff. 



    Trump will return to the scene of the crime,  hold a blood and soil rally in Kenosha, hoping to stoke more violence, hate and division,  exactly one week after Trump supporter Rittenhouse murdered 2 protestors. 

    Trump will congratulate the courageous Kenosha police force, members of which spent Tuesday evening joy riding in armored military vehicles, throwing water bottles to Rittenhouse and other armed vigilantes.  The Kenosha cops were video taped saying, "thanks to you guys, great job, we appreciate you", over and over,  from hatches they bravely and briefly stuck their heads out of .... totally unprofessional behavior,  which led to the mayhem and death that night. That negligence, and the shooting of Jacob Blake, are incidents Kenosha will always be remembered for.

    I can easily solve all of this happening: protesters should obey curfew, especially when they are protesting against local law enforcement. After all, the want to look like they obey the law and want to make it clear that police do not always obey the law. Same with Trump. Dems want to make it look like they obey the law and he does not. Correct?

    Watch that video that Emma posted instead of pooh poohing it because the guy takes money from the NRA. Ain't no angels in it. None. Nobody comes out looking good in Kenosha that night. It was a barroom brawl and riot, that's it. Some of the protesters wanted opponents to fight and they got them. It's like the song: war, what is it good for? absolutely nothing!

    War is Trump's objective. War in American streets.

    His campaign plan is to incite chaos, crimes and protests. So he is going to Kenosha to walk through the blood in the streets like a criminal relishing his crime.

    So don't feed the troll.

    Why is it the people in Belarus know what to do but the left here can't figure it out that you don't feed the troll. In Belarus, the troll walks around fully armed in militia gear and the people protest en masse while walking to the protest on the sidewalks and not the streets and that scares the fucking shit out of the troll.

    Lead by example.

    Acting like a troll, well in that case most skilled troll wins.

    Have you had contact with people from the United States? Some view a curfew as a suggestion. You really have no solution. It is a good sound bite though. The police shot a guy in the back seven times. The police let the shooter leave the state. Now the police are telling you to behave yourself. People are protesting because they have no faith in the police.


    Guy with illegal gun shoots a guy in the head. Runs way, chased by a crowd trying to stop a murderer. Rittenhouse  kills another guy. Nothing to see here.

    Going home at night instead of hanging around gas stations and starting fires in dumpsters and having peaceful protests during the day is clearly the way to win the public approval. Not carrying guns also helps.

    If you want to do Men's Fight Club, first rule of Fight Club is nobody talks about fight club. Instead we continuously see kabuki about machismo for cell phone cameras

    One counter-protester & pro-Trump rally attendee engaged in a fist fight on the roadway at the ramp to the Morrison Bridge. #PortlandProtests #PDXProtests #BlackLivesMatter

    — Portland Independent Documentarians (@PDocumentarians) August 30, 2020

    Even then I would find it disgusting and not want to be aligned with either side.

    Video games are a good way to work excess androgen anger off, I suppose. You could play those at night and protest on the streets in the daylight if you had to work some shit off and play smart the next day in real life.

    I didn't see any wimmin carrying guns taunting each other about shooting, I saw two guns in this video, both held by men,on both sides. I saw fight-club like behavior, I saw white people try to bully each other, and found it disgusting. Both "sides" shooting were white people.

    The whole evening in that area after curfew I watched many videos by many different people and I saw nothing, NOTHING, that reminded me of Black Lives Matter. It was all about YOUNG immature men showing off their protector of tribe status in a crowd of people hanging around. Looking for trouble. Like juvies after curfew.

    It's like Keisha Lance Bottoms said: go home and learn about protesting.

    Back to the crowd hanging around the dumpster fire at the gas station: do you happen to know why they don't allow you to smoke cigarettes at a gas station? And they were just hanging around, shooting the breeze, ready to blow themselves sky high. Go home!

    To a lot of women, what we are increasingly seeing, this is no different than what Trump does, day in, day out, it is immature male narcissism. Real men vote, they don't fight in the streets.

    I hate to tell ya but you are going to be disappointed if you think Kenosha is a secret center of white suprematist neo Nazi militia. Kenosha is not rural Idaho. It's a down on its luck Reagan Dem type Joe Lunchpail town with an influx of a lot of hispanics who really just want to work to send money back home and probably aren't all here legally so they are not going to get involved. 

    It's deer hunter type people as well (i.e. like in The Deer Hunter environment of PA, though not Eastern Orthodoxe), so they are not going to look kindly on ranting and raving about militias when somebody just wants to work with police protect their property with their gun. They aren't going to believe you big city liberal people coming in and saying people with guns are militias, they're just not. Every citizen probably owns a gun.

    The chief of police I heard give press conferences on t.v. was a real hick, not too savvy. Mayor too. They can't afford better. And makes perfect sense they would idiotically thank people helping out with their guns to protect property. Again, this is a town of 100,000, most of whom have no idea what far right wing or far left wing politics are, much less militias.

    You keep picking on em and they WILL welcome Trump, as they watched The Apprentice and think he's smarter than them. They'd probably welcome Biden too, he's just their type of guy.

    really, this is for everyone, what kind of police department do you think can be afforded with the property taxes of like 30,000 people? Get serious. This is Barney Fife and Andy Griffith we are dealing with. There are very few people with money that live in that city, the money is all in Milwaukee and Chicago. All the white flight suburbs exurbs are north of or west of Milwaukee, not south. The small cities of Racine and Kenosha south of Milwaukee on the way to Chicago started a rust belt death decades ago and the graph never went up, only down. 

    To anyone else reading besides rmrd, where I myself go with that realization, as a liberal, knowing southern Wisconsin a bit: where are towns like Kenosha going to come up with the money to have better police departments? Defunding is going to be done clumsily, especially in a state like this where they veer from a Gov. Scott Walker to a Gov. Evers and back again. With lots of rural people in the state, and therefore often the state legislature is often as not the majority Republican?

    A very good example: protesters burned down the Wis. Corrections Dept. building in Kenosha. That is a building where parole officers and state social worker types would be trying to help people who have served their time in prison return to society. You think the dairy farmers of northern Wisconsin will be into paying for that to be replaced much less replaced well? No, they are just going to transfer those workers elsewhere, and Kenosha will just be more poorly served then it was before.

    The situation is actually analogous to New York State, where geographically muh of the state is Republican but the NYC metro area overwhelms with Democratic numbers. It is always a fight still for the money needed for the numbers, the rest of the state doesn't want to pay for us. From time to time money for a lot of things like transit and police end up coming from the Feds, like a rebate on Fed taxes paid in.

    Places like Kenosha and Racine (and the much bigger Milwaukee, with tax income devastated by white flight) are small and poor without a balance of well-off classes. Fed money and resources has to come if you want them to do better.

    How does that get done when Fed law enforcement is considered evil, too? 

    What some are demanding is basically firing everyone in law enforcement in this country and starting over with all new people and a new system. Which would be like the Marshall plan. But without a victor to pay for it, during a pandemic when the economy has been shut down for months, might be shut down again, and the Federal government has already printed tons of money.

    I just don't see this pie in the sky happening, sorry. For places like Kenosha, something has to be worked out like Rodney King's people can't we just get along?  Closer relations between communities served and police as bad as they might be, is all there is available. Joe Biden is going to talk about funding where needed, but everyone knows that in reality that's not going to really happen to the extent of remaking everything.

    You talked about pity olympics. Now in typical double standard fashion, you make excuses for people you call "hicks". You say that they can't do better. The police welcomed white people with weapons to help them out. We have a history of words and deeds by the sheriff and prosecutor do not instill confidence in black people.

    The sheriff and prosecutor "picked on" black people, now you argue how dare we pick on people you call hicks.Can you hear yourself?

    You can't tell the difference between understanding/analyzing and defending? What's your mother tongue?

    I understood what she said perfectly. Pity olympics versus "understanding".

    Fuck you

    You wouldn't like it - I just lay there. On second thought, maybe you would.

    A bit of your own straw man medicine:

    You're defending the poilice department of Kenosha now because I called them hicks? You think they are the state of the art, the best taxpayer money can buy, and shouldn't be slandered with such a name because of one bad apple?

    The sad part of your constant misinterpretation of what others write, whether intentional or because of lack of reading comprehension skills, is that it shows paranoia of bogeymen and enemies on the internet who aren't really there. Where there is no "us vs. them," you twist and strain your brain and others' words to create it.


    You're defending the poilice department of Kenosha now because I called them hicks?

    I am pointing out that you called them hicks. Your view of the citizens of Kenosha is no different than how Trump views the citizens of Kenosha. All your ranting cannot cover up that obvious fact. My reading comprehension is intact. I feel sorry for you.

    I repeat I called their police dept. hicks, as in they don't know much bout no fancy policing theories, as in Barney Fife, whom I also mentioned.

    Your view of the citizens of Kenosha is no different than how Trump views the citizens of Kenosha.

    and you know that how?

    I just said there is mostly low income working class and immigrants there, not furnishing enough taxes for fancy police and social worker salaries and fancy police reform initiaives. 

    your ability to just imagine characters totally different from people's words is amazing. You seem to have to filter everything into "Trump vs. anti-Trump" tribes to be able to understand anything. Whatcha gonna do when he is no longer there to filter the world for you? Even if re-elected he will eventually die, you are going to have to find a different way to filter information then....


    Do you ever wonder why no one else interacts with you on this site besides PP, me and oceankat?

    Maybe because they fear being turned into strawmen and have their words twisted?

    We three have written enough here that there's evidence to the contrary of your constant misintpretations, misreadings and strawmanning, your very small myopic focus unable to handle complex analysis and rarely venturing from any world except the Black tribal and American national politics. So we are confident enough to criticize your bullshit. But everyone else is ascared they will be turned into a Trumpie or racist by rmrd if they say something anything nuanced coming from a larger, less narrow mind and have to splain themselves over and over as basically being "framed" for crimes by rmrd.

    AND FURTHERMORE, I hate myself for interacting with you as it is usually an idiotic waste of time, years of it now, it's actually a great tragedy that waste of time and I think lurkers like masthead people see that happen and they much more wisely say: oh not for me to waste time talking to that idiot, I see what happens when people do. Do you appreciate it that we waste time on your trolling? NO. Which makes us the fools as well

    Most posts are dialogues between you and PP.

    You write about Wokes and Lefties. You categorize people into tribes. You are the champion bullshit artist. You made the same hick comment about the mayor. The people are not bright enough to tell far right from far left, yet you then talk about Big City Lefties. Kenosha knows the difference. I read your words. Often they are a jumble.


    Every time, read the actual words not the stereotyping you formed in our head from something you read previous. All you are doing RIGHT HERE is saying you don't read but you stereotype and then cherry pick to confirm your stereotype. (Not only that you tend to confirm your stereotype bias by skimming for your cherry picked stuff, them you just skim it and don't read it and it often contradicts.)

    Learn to read words, learn to communicate with people instead of stereotyping them in polticial categories. Flavius actually tried to do this with you and all you did was constantly criticize him for being friendly with someone "Ted" that you could stereotype as "enemy" in which case unless "Ted" could be confirmed fer or agin in a political vote, he was a worthless human being. Flavius was trying hard, but you were sooooo clueless. You have a very small mind that needs to be opened, but it seems hopeless, hence you presume everyone else is in a bubble like you.

    It's absurd the way you keep libraries of links and then paste them to prove one of your favorite stereotypical points. They are like your bible and you are like a close minded fundamentalist. there is nothing new on the earth to learn and that's that.

    You repeat the same tired attack when we disagree. You put people into tribes and now talk about stereotypes,

    Edit to add:

    You thought Flavius was dead. He was not communicating with you either.

    2nd Edit to add

    Most posts are dialogues between you and PP. I am not the major poster.

    Let's leave Flavius out of this

    the ultimate in projection. one repeats with you ONLY because all you do is repeat the same things. You have basically two topics, that's it. Everything you post is to confirm those two biases. A very closed mind with an agenda to confirm the closure.You show zero interest in anything else. And within those two memes, NEVER have I seen you post something contrarian, something that would challenge your presumptions. Believe in a very narrow set of things about how the world is, find enough links to confirm, and you're all set. Must be comforting to have everything all squared and figured out, very like a fundamentalist Christian or Taliban.

    I have a post up about intelligence officials refusing to provide detailed election security data to Democrats in the House.

    You have no problem posting about shootings in various locations.

    Edit to add:

    Had a post about the dangers weather reporters faced by being placed outdoors during severe weather events

    That's on one of your two topics, partisan politics as regards the presidential election. The other, more dominant one, is anything to do with the Afro-American slant on any news, a group who happens to be just 14% of the American population.  Fuggeabout the other 86% of American population and the rest of the world, they don't matter.

    By the way you also posted this article from The Root about the Kenosha sheriff being so much of a clueless hick cop that he doesn't even know how to spin politically correct with different constituencies, which most cops know how to do. He is so naive that he doesn't even know when to lie so that he won't get in trouble.

    The sheriff and the prosecutor know the meaning behind their words. They welcome the far right.

    Your words

    They aren't going to believe you big city liberal people coming in and saying people with guns are militias, they're just not

    Again, this is a town of 100,000, most of whom have no idea what far right wing or far left wing politics are, much less militias.

    You keep picking on em and they WILL welcome Trump, as they watched The Apprentice and think he's smarter than them. They'd probably welcome Biden too, he's just their type of guy.

    So they have no idea of Left vs Right, they are Jello?

    Over 80% have internet access

    *far* left or right *politics* - Marxist theory or QAnon principles... hand signals, encoder rings...

    This is why you and AA dialogue, she understands your gibberish.

    Mission Control, we have a problem.

    Rittenhouse's defense team statement


    Kyle Rittenhouse’s legal team has released a full statement of his defense.

    — Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) August 29, 2020


    I note a vague heads up about Monday for those interested in the political implications for the presidential race in this NYT article about a Biden speech to National Guard Saturday:

    [...] A spokesman for the president said that on Tuesday, Mr. Trump will visit Kenosha, Wis., where a police shooting of a Black man, Jacob Blake, led to an outpouring of anger and protests that in some cases turned destructive. The president would meet with local law enforcement, the spokesman, Judd Deere, said in a tweet. National Guard troops were deployed to Kenosha last week.

    Mr. Biden, who has been a firm supporter of peaceful protests, is expected to travel on Monday to condemn violence, and to note that chaos has unfolded on Mr. Trump’s watch, according to someone familiar with his plans. He is also expected to charge more broadly that the president is seeking to change the subject from the coronavirus and economic challenges the country faces. Details of his Monday plans weren’t immediately clear [....]

    Piece in Milwaukee's main paper today:

    How we reported this story

    Information contained in this story comes from interviews with eight protesters who attended demonstrations in Kenosha. It also comes from firsthand observations of reporters who covered the protests and news conferences regarding the shooting of Jacob Blake by police and the shootings of three men on Tuesday night. Reporters also reviewed videos, websites, social media accounts, news releases, court records and numerous media reports.

    The witnesses quoted in this story were willing to have their full names published, but the Journal Sentinel is using only their first names because of the serious nature of numerous threats and harassment directed at people involved in this case.

    really good thought-provoking essay 

    Kyle Rittenhouse, Kenosha, and the Sheepdog Mentality

    Rittenhouse appears to live in a fantasy world where police and car dealerships are more endangered than unarmed Black men, and where he is a warrior.

     By Graeme Wood @, Aug. 28

    I have highlighted in supersized text two phrases that stood out to me in an excerpt:


    The availability of these videos is perhaps the biggest change in gun culture in our lifetimes, and one of the results is mayhem like this. The shift has suddenly made violence against humans (as opposed to animals) imaginable—whereas in the past, most people could live their whole life without witnessing or taking part in a gunfight. The videos emphasize the bad things that can happen to you if your draw time is too slow, or your magazine too small. Now one can watch videos and imagine oneself not stalking a deer but defending others, in improbable heroic scenarios once limited to action movies.

    That is the fantasy that seemed to have motivated Rittenhouse’s trip to Kenosha. He was interviewed hours before the shooting by The Daily Caller’s Richie McGinniss. He explained his presence in Kenosha by saying that “people are getting injured, and our job is to protect this business.” He looks preposterously young for this role, not like some ’roid-crazed militiaman but like a kid who has somehow guessed that the code to his father’s gun locker is his own birthday. Rittenhouse has been called a “white supremacist,” but none of his comments during interviews at the scene mention race. (Other comments may surface later, and his social-media accounts reportedly show plenty of sympathy for cops, and none for the protesters.) Instead his comments mention what is by far the most common topic in gun-enthusiast channels, which is what to do to preserve life and property using guns.

    Before the advent of these videos, to be a concealed carrier meant entering uncharted cognitive territory. If you have never walked around with a gun in your pocket, you probably have poor intuitions about how it feels—the power; the discomfort of having a hunk of metal or plastic impeding your gait and mobility; most of all, the sense of responsibility. The writer Dan Baum strapped on a .38 in the course of researching a 2013 book on gun culture and described the experience well:

    Everything around me appeared brilliantly sharp, the colors extra rich, the contrasts shockingly stark. I could hear footsteps on the pavement two blocks away ... It made me more organized. Wearing the gun, I was Mr. Together. There was no room for screwing up when I was equipped to kill.

    Baum would avoid trouble, because he didn’t want to be anywhere near a fistfight, unstable people, or anything that might raise the possibility that he would fire his gun. The feeling of empowerment comes with a wearying imperative of caution: You do not seek out danger, and instead you live the most boring life possible, to avoid using the murder machine you have for some reason decided to attach awkwardly to your midsection.

    What distinguishes Baum, who crossed the street to avoid violence, from Rittenhouse, who carried openly and crossed state lines to find violence? One is a seersucker-wearing, middle-aged journalist, and the other is an adolescent. The other salient difference, though, is that at 17, Rittenhouse has never known a world where owning a gun did not go along with what is sometimes known as the “sheepdog mentality”—the belief that your gun exists to protect others, and that you should rush in to perform that duty. Many of the gun videos you find online emphasize exactly this, to an audience of men.


    I read an article some time ago where a team of judges looked at cases involving the use of a gun. The determined that few could be called self defense. The vast majority were escalating arguments that ended in gun use where without the gun the most that might have happened was a brawl. Baum had a gun and was awed by the power. It made him more responsible. But for many other people give them power and they will want to demonstrate it.

    What puzzles me the most is those who open carry every where. Here in this small rural community with virtually no crime and no danger there are several people who always carry a gun. Why? I think it's because it gives them that  sense of power they desire. I could carry if I wanted, I have the guns. But I never do. I just can't think of a reason to do it.

    Perhaps because you do not have dreams of saving us damsels in distress and subordinating us to your protection, and being knighted for doing so? Just a theory. laugh

    What, you're against chivalry now? To the dungeon wid ya - maybe ye olde Iron Maiden will warm you up.

    It's that hyper macho attitude that's becoming more and more popular. It's like the guys who spend many hours at the gym every week to make their biceps and shoulders as big as possible, then wear small shirts to emphasize. It's a bizarre over-the-top macho fantasy world. I also blame the rampant fixation on 'super hero' movies, with impossibly beefed up characters and 'super powers.' I suppose it's a reaction to people feeling powerless or inadequate in their real lives. 

    Might as well say "rock and roll". Pretty sure the Fitness kraze only very marginally tied to any weaponry (metrosexuals? rock climbing grrrls/office execs?), if you've been to a gym lately. And that kid with the Star Wars Light Sabre didn't grow up to be a samurai terrorist, nor did this Ninja Turtles cause much of a ripple on the crime scene. I'd blame it on Spy Kids if I had to guess.

    You seem to completely miss the point. I repeat-- it's HYPER MACHO ATTITUDE. Did you hear it that time? 

    I heard you, but I know guys who spend lots of hours building muscles who are light years from this behavior, so how you identify your Hyper Macho Attitude (HMA) in some heuristic fashion, you're stuck the same was as "Over Testosteroned" and other halfway useless labels. In any case, this kid didn't really seem looking for a fight, so what gives?


    Stopped reading when Wood described Rittenhouse and 'the killer'. Technically true but so misleading where it is used. Never have the media been so transparently biased as they have been reporting this story. They so badly want Kyle to be the villain of the piece but the independent film to date, known facts and Kyle himself belie the story they want to tell.

    Kyle's story as well as those of his assailant/victims are all individual tragedies but if there has to be a villain, it is Rosenbaum, the 36 year old who verbally assaulted Kyle, then stalked, chased and cornered him before being killed trying to wrest Kyle's rifle from him thereby precipitating subsequent events.

    I feel some sympathy for all the players involved but most for Kyle. The other, older ones' lives were already mostly cast. Kyle's was still open and full of promise. Now?  ....


    well, to me there's two different things here. How I would be as a juror judging his innocence or guilt of whatever charges is one thing.

    But the Atlantic piece is not really that, it's addressing guns, males and vigilantism. I support things like curfews to enable a rudimentary sort of law and order during times of unrest. I don't like the idea of everybody relying on vigilantes, no matter which side, even if they are nice caring people, that's a quite a quick slippery slope back to the Wild West.

    This says it for me:


    Yeah this is the thing. Whatever the immediate circumstances of the shootings, Rittenhouse is someone who went looking for trouble and found it.

    — Josh Barro (@jbarro) August 31, 2020


    I really have no desire to encourage teens out on the streets at night with dreams of heroism right now. With a gun, looking to calm things with a gun. That's not good, it's bad. Last thing we need to feed. 

    He shouldn't have been there. None of them should have been there after curfew.

    And if that hothead lefty screaming "shoot me!' did so before curfew, something should have been done about him, I don't know what, but right there he's a danger to society for sure.

    Agree with all this. How can it be ok for a 17 year old to walk the streets with an AR-15 when we as a society don't think they're mature or responsible enough to buy a beer until they're 21? We also don't know the whole story. Why were people trying so hard to disarm him? Just because he had a gun or for some other reason?

    I'm not sure, but it looked to me like they were trying to disarm him because he had just shot the first guy. 

    meanwhile, on what his real attorneys are purported planning to do:

    Kyle Rittenhouse is a fcking moron.

    But in his defense, he does belong to a very popular organization-- it's called Morons with Guns. 

    Kyle Rittenhouse Breaks Down on Witness Stand While Testifying About the Man Who ‘Ambushed’ Him and ‘Threatened to Kill’ Him Twice

    — Law & Crime (@lawcrimenews) November 11, 2021

    Woman Seen Comforting Kyle Rittenhouse’s Mom in Court Is Actually a Consultant Who Selected ‘Perfect Juror’ for O.J. Simpson Trial

    — Law & Crime (@lawcrimenews) November 10, 2021

    edit to add:


    The prosecutors are blowing the case. You don't have a back and forth with the defendant.

    Did you travel from your home x miles to Kenosha?

    Did you carry an assault rifle with you?

    Were you legally allowed to carry an assault weapon in your home state?

    Were you legally allowed to carry an assault weapon across state lines?

    Did you carry a weapon that you were not legally allowed to possess into the protest?

    Did you fire the weapon that you illegally carried across state lines during the protest?

    Did you use your illegal weapon to kill anyone?

    Lawyer friends say just go for "yes", "no" questions and sit your prosecutorial behind down.

    If Rittenhouse broke down into fake tears, remind him that we didn't see any tears in the video that shows him calmly walking away after the shooting.

    I wasn't going to comment at all on the Kyle Rittenhouse situation, but the fact many Americans and US media are trying to turn it into a 'race' issue perfectly demonstrates what I was saying the other day about America's obsession with 'race'.

    It's not remotely relevant here.

    — ZUBY: (@ZubyMusic) November 10, 2021



    Rittenhouse, when out on bail, was hanging out and drinking with the Proud Boys, flashing white power signs.

    Kyle Rittenhouse, who is charged with killing two at a protest in Kenosha, Wis., was photographed drinking underage, using “white power” hand gestures and meeting members of the Proud Boys group at a bar, prosecutors say...... link


    During the Civil Rights era, white men killed other white people involved in Ciil Rights protests

    Reverend James Reeb

    Viola Liuzzo

    buffalo whatever's tweet is nonsensical 

    Glad I'm not on the jury, sounds to me like not much more than a great bunch of guys allaround, two gangs out after curfew looking for trouble, i.e., let's have a rumble since there's not enough police around, and yes, that it had little to do with Black lives, it's an anti-policing white gang vs. a pro-policing white gang

    [....] But in cross-examination, Rittenhouse said that he knew the man, Joseph Rosenbaum, was unarmed when he ran at the teenager. Rittenhouse said he pointed his rifle at Rosenbaum in an attempt to deter him, adding that he knew pointing a rifle at someone is dangerous.

        "He was chasing me, I was alone, he threatened to kill me earlier that night. I didn't want to have to shoot him," Rittenhouse testified. "I pointed it at him because he kept running at me and I didn't want him to chase me."

        He said he feared Rosenbaum, who did not touch his body at all that night, would take his gun and kill people.


        Rittenhouse told jurors that Rosenbaum threatened to kill him twice that night. In one instance, Rosenbaum screamed, "if I catch any of you f**kers alone, I'll f**king kill you," according to Rittenhouse.

        At one point in the night, he became separated from the other armed people in his group. He walked toward a parking lot and said Rosenbaum, hiding behind a vehicle, "ambushed me." Rosenbaum began running at him and cornered him, he said.

        Rittenhouse testified that he heard another man, Joshua Ziminski, tell Rosenbaum to "get him and kill him." Rosenbaum started to chase the teenager in a parking lot and threw a plastic bag at him, but Rittenhouse said he believed at the time that the thrown object was a chain.

        Rittenhouse then heard a gunshot behind him, he said.

        Police detectives testified earlier in the trial that Ziminski fired that initial shot in the air, and Ziminski has separately pleaded not guilty to three charges related to that night.

        Seconds after that gunshot, Rittenhouse turned and saw Rosenbaum, 36, coming at him with his arms out front, he said. "I remember his hand on the barrel of my gun," Rittenhouse testified. He then shot Rosenbaum four times, killing him.

        Rittenhouse then tried to run down the street to where police were situated to turn himself in, he testified, but a "mob was chasing me." While running, he became lightheaded and fell to the ground, he said.

        An unknown person jumped at him trying to kick him, and Rittenhouse fired at the person twice. "I thought if I were to be knocked out, he would have stomped my face in if I didn't fire."

        Anthony Huber, 26, then came at him, struck him with a skateboard, and grabbed his gun, he testified. Rittenhouse shot him once in the chest, killing him.

        Finally, he saw Gaige Grosskreutz lunge at him and point a pistol at his head, so Rittenhouse shot him, he testified. Grosskreutz was wounded.


        On cross-examination from Assistant District Attorney Binger, Rittenhouse acknowledged he used deadly force in shooting at four people that night.

        "I didn't know if it was going to kill them but I used deadly force to stop the threat that was attacking me," he said.

        He also said he knew he was not old enough to legally buy a firearm and so he asked his friend Dominick Black to do so on his behalf. He selected an AR-15-style weapon because "I thought it looked cool," he testified.

        He said his legal understanding was that he could possess a rifle in Wisconsin but not a handgun. "If I could have legally carried a handgun, I would have carried a handgun ... instead of a rifle," he testified.

        Much of the cross-examination centered on why Rittenhouse brought an AR-15-style rifle into an already volatile situation in Kenosha. Rittenhouse explained he did so to protect himself, even as he said he didn't necessarily think he would be in danger.

        "I brought the gun for my protection, but I didn't think I would have to use the gun and end up defending myself," he testified. He also said he did not think carrying a rifle would "cause a negative reaction" among the crowd.

        At another point, the jury was shown video from that night in which Rittenhouse falsely told the camera he was an EMT. "I told him I was an EMT but I wasn't," Rittenhouse testified.

        In the video, a man wearing yellow pants tells Rittenhouse that the teenager had just pointed a gun at him for standing on a vehicle. Rittenhouse responds in the video, "Yeah I did."

        In court, he testified that he had not actually pointed his weapon at the man and said his admission on video was "sarcasm."

        "I thought that would be the best way to avoid conflict," Rittenhouse testified. "I thought the best thing to do would be to walk away instead of getting into some argument."

        Jurors began to tire and took fewer notes during the afternoon cross-examination, a courtroom pool reporter noted.


        from Kyle Rittenhouse testifies he knew Joseph Rosenbaum was unarmed but acted in self-defense during fatal shooting by Eric Levenson, Brad Parks and Carma Hassan @, Nov. 10 (note they also have lots of testimony videos on that page)

        also see

        This is Joseph Rosenbaum. He was killed by Kyle Rittenhouse acting in self defense.
        He was a convicted pedophile.

        — Francisco d'Anconia (@moraltreason) November 1, 2021


        Funny how their person who shot this guy is labeled a “white supremacist”

        — Following Science (@Asuther42866916) November 11, 2021

        You should at a minimum, thank his mother, Wendy, for raising such a courageous son to defend Republicans.

        She received a standing ovation after he killed the lefty terrorists from the Waukesha County GOP women last year.

        Mothers who could only hope and pray they are blessed with sons who will have the resolve to have straw purchasing friends buy them guns illegally so they can kill people threatening not only them, but Republican women everywhere.

        Wendy in center. God Bless her!

        well if you notice upthread, I did share the info. from Law & Crime that she was smart enough to agree to hire O.J. Simpson's jury consultant. So there's that. He's black, you know; also he famously won his case with her on his team.

        Like I said, seems to me this was a gang fight between two hoodlum gangs on street illegally after curfew. I will add that one of the members, on trial now, seems to have a very irresponsible mother who encourages him to go across state lines with his rifle and march around after curfew where "protesters" are also marching around after curfew, looking for trouble, doing things like lighting dumpsters on fire and rolling them around a gas station.

        Don't miss where I underlined above where there is another perp involved, Ziminsky, who actually fired the first gunshot, who has not gone on trial yet but apparently is set to, as he has plead not guilty as well, to 3 charges

        Also what I see: just another example of how NCD takes every fucking opportunity to turn nearly every story he can into the following moral lesson: Republicans are bad. And that you do that has always made me question whether you are really as intelligent as you appear. Because I think like this: partisans are stupid. i really hope you don't  suspect there were actual good guys invovled in this situation.

        Agree with you a very irreponsible Mom.

        But Waukesha County Republicans gave Wendy an invite, and a standing ovation, its at the Newsweek link. They thanked her for her son 'fighting back.'

        I'm unaware of BLM giving an invite and a standing ovation to a Mom of a son who murdered 2 unarmed people.

        There is no bottom of the barrel for the Republican Party. There isn't even a barrel. That's just the fact, don't blame the messenger.


        Writes Wolf ·Nov 11

        As someone who would define their politics as antifascist (or at least anti-capitalist and anti-authoritarian) and lives in the Minneapolis neighborhood that was burned down last year, I can say that it was not fun or exciting. It was not fun to watch people from the suburbs drive 60mph down my street to join the riots. It was especially not fun to go online and see all the people celebrating the fact that my neighborhood was on fire.

        It was not fun seeing people with no connection to the area describe property damage as unimportant. Never mind that most of these buildings were populated by immigrant owned businesses employing people in the community. Never mind that those buildings won't be rebuilt for at least another year, which means...

        The whole fucking thing there (in Kenosha) was a horrific tragedy.

        In the 70's we used to make fun of the "outside agitator" claim by conservatives in the late 60's and early 70's about college campus unrest.

        But this is a case where I read enough to believe that really happened here. I followed the story of the riots closely and know the area well enough. The police actually shut down the main incoming highways with roadblocks but too late and not soon enough. Both anarchists (including from northern California,) and the right wing groups (the latter of which Rittenhouse was a happy enabler) made it in through via state highways, mostly coming from the Chicago area, and together basically incited enough to end with the downtown being burned down. A damn shame, too, as the town was just starting to come back.

        They are never going to have a decent police department there without a tax base paying for it. (Nor for "social workers" if that's your preference. Which comes to mind that the riots also ended up with severe damage to some state government office buildings there, mostly filled with "social worker" types, which were specifically located there instead of Milwaukee, to feed the revival of the town.)

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