Wolraich: Obama at the Gates of... Gates
Dr. C: In Praise of Writing Binges
Maiello: Gatsby Doesn't Grate
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Wolraich: Obama at the Gates of... Gates Dr. C: In Praise of Writing Binges Maiello: Gatsby Doesn't Grate |
Blowing |
With twenty-four days to go until the final votes are cast, it is clear that the Obama-Romney contest has narrowed drastically. The number of states that are “in play” remains small, and the number of states that could realistically decide this election is smaller still. Taking a close look at data from the last week and reading it against what we know from 2010 gives us a window into how narrow this contest is, where it will be decided, and likely how. As I will explain, I am more bullish on President Obama’s likelihood of winning re-election than others caught up in the national trackers, Nate Silver’s plummeting assessments of the President’s prospects, or the gloomy post-debate narratives (Andrew Sullivan being the undisputed champion of that particular raindance). So here – with close attention to polls and what they do and do not show – is why I see President Obama’s chance of winning re-election at roughly 80% today.
1. Parsing Romney’s Post-Debate Bounce
Even the President’s most ardent supporters now readily concede that Mitt Romney won the October 3 debate in Denver. (Indeed, some of the President’s most ardent supporters can speak of little else, as this election approaches its finish.) The measure of the bounce is found in a comparison of data drawn from mid-September (when the President’s convention bounce, lengthened by focus on Romney’s Libya and 47% comments) and from the period October 4-11, comprising the week following Romney’s strong showing in Denver.
This bounce was substantial, but not uniformly distributed across all states. While I first thought it would be worth two points nationally, given the rigidity of polling in this cycle, my prediction understated the force of Romney’s gains. In Gallup, the registered voter bounce was from Obama +6 to Obama +3 (though the fact that Gallup uses a seven day rolling average implies that the bounce was at least four points, given that the long period softens peaks and valleys). In Rasmussen, Obama swung from +2 to -2 – a four point decline. In the RAND Corporation tracker, mysteriously omitted from the RealClearPolitics average, but which Nate Silver utilizes in his data set, Obama fell from +8 to +2 (a six point decline), and in the IBD/TIPP tracker, which began on October 1, Obama fell briefly to -5, likely representing at least a six point decline from Obama’s peak standing to that lowest point (though IBD bracketed that five point deficit with days showing Obama down 2). Accordingly, the national decline in Obama’s status, picking his highest peak and lowest valley, was more like 4-6 points nationally.
While Florida Bounces the Most, Other Swing States Simply Do Not Experience These Changes.
While Romney showed gains almost everywhere, he did not experience gains in swing state commensurate with his national bounce. Grouping these is helpful.
The Full Monty: Romney’s Six Point Gain in the Sunshine State. There is no question that post-debate polls of Florida have been very good for Romney. ARG and Mason-Dixon showed 8 point declines for Obama, with Romney now up 3 and 7, respectively. Rasmussen showed a six point gain for Romney, from down 2 to up 6. Finally, Marist showed no decline, with Obama still up 1. The picture is one of Obama moving from up 3 to down 3, consistent with the national bounce.
The In-Betweeners: Colorado, Virginia, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Nevada Move Two to Three Points. While scoring strong gains in Florida, Romney seems to have moved ahead narrowly in Colorado, but by 2-3, and not 6, points. ARG showed Obama falling from +2 to -4, consistent with GOP-leaning Gravis Marketing showing Obama falling from +4 to -3. In the same period, however, both Quinnipiac and SurveyUSA showed Obama falling from +1 to -1, and Rasmussen showed Obama gaining from -2 to +1 after the debate. The picture in Colorado is thus much closer to a 2-3 point swing toward Romney, with the race there showing Romney up by 1 or so. Virginia has moved about like Colorado. There, Marist shows Obama moving from +2 to -1, PPP showed a move from Obama +5 to +3, Rasmusssen showed Obama moving from +2 to -1. These 2-3 point moves are bracketed by symmetric outliers: Quinnipiac showed Obama gaining a point (+4 to +5) while We Ask America showed him losing 6 (+3 to -3), which amount to the same average of 2-3 points of motion toward Romney. Additionally, lightly polled New Hampshire showed Romney up 4 and tied in post-debate polling, which meant either a 7 point gain for Romney (ARG showing Obama falling from +3 in the average of its September surveys to -4) or a 3 point gain for Obama, from -3 to tied in Rasmussen. This averages to a 2 point gain for Romney, in a state which (excluding high and low results was +4.5% for Obama in September). Obama is likely slightly ahead there. Traditionally narrowly Democratic Wisconsin has moved roughly like these other states in the three post-debate polls. PPP shows the biggest Obama decline (+7 to +2), while Quinnipiac shows a 3 point drop from +6 to +3. Rasmussen shows a one point drop from Obama +3 to +2, thus showing a 3 point average drop into a 2-3 point Obama lead, with essentially no undecideds. Nevada is harder to assess because of light polling, but we have Obama falling 5 in PPP (from +9 to +4), falling 2 in Rasmussen (from +2 to even), and other surveys showing Obama up 2, 1, and 1, which can be compared roughly (not apples to apples, like the rest of this piece) with other one-off surveys averaging to a 5 point Obama lead. In sum, Nevada has moved about 3 points toward Romney, but he has not led in a single poll there since early 2011.
The Hardened Electorate: Ohio Is Barely Affected. Romney’s 6 point national bounce has not showed up in Ohio. PPP shows Obama up 1 (from +4 to +5), Rasmussen has shown Obama up 1 in its last three polls across September and October, Marist shows Obama down 2 (from +8 to +6), as have GOP-leaning Gravis Marketing and ARG (both showing Obama moving from +1 to -1). The polls without counterparts on both sides of October 3 are more equivocal, with Obama up 4 in the post-debate CNN/Opinion Research poll, while other polls before the debate by pollsters not again in the field showed Obama up 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 10. Based on these data, we can see that the average of change in apples-to-apples polls at less than one point toward Romney, the smallest among any swing state. The polls in the last week tell a story not much changed from Nate Silver’s pre-debate model of Ohio at roughly 51-47.5. Until other pollsters return to the field and show an apples-to-apples swing from mid-September to mid-October, it is hard to argue that Ohio has swung much toward Romney.
2. The Boundaries of This Race’s Likely Outcomes Favor President Obama.
As I have argued before, this election exists in a space bounded by the best possible Obama outcome (a six point or so win, consistent with his highest average national tracking poll status to date), and the best possible Romney outcome (a one point or so win, consistent with his highest average national tracking poll status to date). In that sense, President Obama was overperforming as a candidate throughout mid-September, and Mitt Romney has overperformed as a candidate likewise in the last week. This leads us to different points that lead to the same conclusion: structural factors in this race, however considered, favor President Obama.
First, there is the obvious point that if the band of possible outcomes is consistent with an Obama +6 to Romney -1 world, there are simply far more possible outcomes in favor of an Obama victory. In a broader sense, this is why Nate’s model has not yet gone below 61% in favor of an Obama victory, and why it, flush with a September bounce, rose to a high of 87% in its synthesis of polling data. But this is a more superficial way of looking at things. You can parse strands in the data, and they lead to the same place.
Second, put another way, Obama has a greater likelihood of making marginal gains by simply performing adequately as a candidate, while Romney has a strong need to continue his overperformance even to maintain his status as within a point or so. You can see this in the nascent data set concerning the Biden-Ryan debate. Vice-Presidential debates have little effect on self-reported voting decisions, as Gallup hastened to point out. True enough. But the Vice-Presidential debate turned the first Obama-Romney debate into old news, and old news cycles. And more than that, it provided a feisty, widely-viewed statement of the Obama-Biden case that was preponderantly viewed as Biden victory. Despite a poll of more-Republican-than-the-electorate debate watchers by CNN favoring Ryan 48-44, the rest of the data ran the other way: a CBS News poll of undecided showed Biden winning 50-31, Reuters-Ipsos showed Biden winning 42-35, and the new PPP poll of Ohio shows a Biden victory by that margin, with even a narrow plurality of Romney-Ryan voters thinking Biden won. And with Biden modestly outperforming Ryan, and the prior debate relegated to past-event status, the RAND tracker, which reports daily results, has shown a 2 point uptick (from +2 to +4) in its wake, while IBD has shown Obama up 1 over the last three days.
Conceding that the Vice-Presidential debate was an event of modest significance (though viewed by 51 million people), the fact that it has tended to move the data to the midpoint of the range of plausible outcomes reinforces the idea that it is easier for Obama to gain than for Romney to do so. If Obama by conventional wisdom roughly “ties” Romney on Tuesday, the effect will be the same – tending to center outcomes in the middle of the -1/+6 range that defines these two candidates’ best days. Not only is the media primed for a comeback narrative that would tend to ratify such a move (or settling) in the data, but Obama himself by all reports plans more assertively (well, any assertively would be more) to challenge Romney on his core vulnerabilities and points of clash, making that outcome more likely as well.
Third, and finally in this regard, another way of looking at the concept of Obama performing at the lower portion of his range of outcomes is that certain concrete parts of his performance are amenable to improvement. In the polls showing Romney up modestly on Obama after the debate, Romney moved to a position of leading among independents by close to 20 points. Currently, IBD shows Romney’s advantage moderating to something more like 8 or 9 points. Yet the massive advantage – likely Romney’s best day with persuadable voters – is necessary for him to lead by 1-2 in national tracking polls. Put another way, Obama is leading in IBD with only 36% of white voters in his corner. That would be far lower than Obama’s own or Kerry’s performance among white voters. One could far more readily anticipate Obama gaining a point or two there than losing even more. Again, the concept of a range and limits comes into play, and Romney cannot rely on winning 65% of the white vote or winning independents by 20% or more. Romney approached these marks with a 72-20 margin on whether he won a debate, perfect storm figures he is unlikely to replicate and which still have not put him in an Electoral College lead.
3. Either Obama Has an Electoral College Advantage, or the National Polls Are Wrong, And Whichever Is the Case Makes His Victory More Likely Than It Presently Appears.
In our highly polarized nation, there have been wars in the media about what the facts concerning voter behavior are. There are Republicans who argue that national polls oversample Democrats and that Mitt Romney is really ahead by 5 or 7 points nationally, and who argue that some pollsters, like PPP, are Democratic happy talk. There are Democrats who argue that national tracking polls by Gallup and Rasmussen oversample Republicans because they do not sufficiently describe the voting intentions of younger voters, who are far more likely not to have land lines, of lower-income voters, who are modestly less likely to answer surveys, and Latinos, who seem to have been undersampled in recent elections. A related point of conflict – grounded in your view of the polling data – is whether President Obama has an advantage in the Electoral College, such that you would expect him to win an election tied in the national popular vote. Democrats tend to argue yes, Republicans tend to argue no.
Synthesizing the data, I think the neutral and intellectually honest conclusion is one that Nate Silver has not thus far stated, though you would expect him to say it first: either President Obama really has an Electoral College advantage, or the national trackers are modestly off. Here is why.
Consider first the bases each side begins with. Consider that President Obama is firmly ahead in the Kerry states plus New Mexico but minus New Hampshire (where he leads, but by 2 or so). That is 247 EVs. In that status quo, we are told today by Gallup and Rasmussen that Romney leads by 2, we are told by IBD that Obama leads by .75, and by RAND that Obama is up 3.75. The average is even. Yet when you take the hard Obama base of 247, and add to it Ohio (19 EVs), where Obama leads, and Nevada (6 EVs), where he has never trailed, Obama gets to 272. This ignores lightly-polled Iowa (6 EVs), where Obama led by 2 per Rasmussen after the Denver debate, New Hampshire’s 4 EVs, Virginia (13 EVs), where Obama narrowly leads in post-debate polling, and Colorado’s 9 EVs sitting in a jump ball. Even ceding North Carolina’s 15 EVs to Romney, and ignoring Florida’s 29 EVs, this “even” status in the trackers is not “even.”
More to the point, Gallup and Rasmussen show Romney up 2, a position I which he should be more likely than not to win. Yet the most recent polling in Ohio, Nevada, Wisconsin, Virginia, and Iowa alone would give Obama 293. Indeed, there is little argument that Romney trails in Wisconsin and Ohio, and has literally never led in 2012 polls of Nevada. The trackers would have to move at least two, and likely three more points (and we have to assume that motion would translate equivalently to motion in OH, WI, and NV) for Romney to appear more likely than not to win these states. In other words, Romney needs whatever Gallup and Rasmussen measure to be +5 for him to be truly “even.” This suggests that those trackers are not put together well.
In trying to understand what is wrong with this picture, consider the polling data heading into the 2010 Senate elections – importantly, from many of the states now studied by the same pollsters – and how in every close election in 2010, the polls overpredicted Republican performance. The average of polls in California showed Barbara Boxer up 5; she won by 10 (a +5 swing). Polling averages showed Harry Reid losing in Nevada by 3 when he won by 5 (a +8 swing). Polling averages showed Michael Bennet losing his Colorado Senate seat by 3; he won by 1 (a +4 swing). Polling averages showed Mark Kirk winning an Illinois Senate seat by 3.3; he won by 1.9 (a +1.4 swing). In these four states with significant Hispanic populations, the Democrat overperformed polls by an average of almost 5 points. Consider that Barack Obama does not even need to overperform the recent average of polls to win Nevada, and that a 1 point overperformance would win him Colorado. Nate Silver approached this a different way yesterday, when trying to explain a survey showing President Obama ahead in Arizona by 2 points as a function of that poll’s use of Spanish-language surveys, and President Obama’s whopping 77-10 margin among Arizona Latinos. He tweaked his model to include Latino voting margins collected by surveys specializing in Latino voters. Thus tweaked, President Obama’s likelihood of winning Nevada leapt from 62 to 77%, and his chances of winning Colorado moved from 43% to 55%.
Putting aside the inference I draw that Latino voters are undersampled in a way that suggests that President Obama will win Nevada and Colorado, the 2010 polls also underestimated Democratic performance in a variety of states with closely contested elections and without large Latino populations. This suggests to me that cellphone v. landline issues and other cultural differences in survey response by age or lifestyle have skewed recent political surveys modestly toward overpredicting Republican advantages. Thus, the Democratic candidates also overperformed final polling averages by 2.5% in Pennsylvania, 3.5% in Washington, 5.6% in West Virginia, and by 2.8% in Wisconsin. Here, the average is 3.5%.
In sum, if Gallup and Rasmussen are right that Romney leads by 2, then it is obvious that Obama has an Electoral College advantage and should be expected to win if he is within 3 or so points. If on the other hand Obama has no Electoral College advantage, then the tracking polls are off – by about 4 points in Gallup and Rasmussen’s cases. This happens to coincide closely with the 2010 margin of overprediction of Republican performance in all eight Senate races that were within 10 points – NV, CA, CO, IL, PA, WA, WV, WI. My strong belief based on 2010 is that the continuing disconnect between state and national polling is a function of presently-unexplained systemic defects in the national polls. This inference is reinforced by the very strong evidence in 2010 – all eight polls having a systematic and consistent bias. This inference is also reinforced by the wide range of states (OH, VA, NV, IA, WI, NH, FL, CO) not showing a consistency with the supposed national trend.
Shorter version: the underconsidered RAND tracker showing Obama up 3.75% nationally is much closer to reality than either Gallup or Rasmussen. Otherwise, the state polling is systematically incorrect, despite the wide disparity among states and pollsters in the filed in those states. Systematic error more logically resides in the two famed national pollsters.
4. Obama’s Powerful Ground Game, Demonstrated By Early Voter Behavior in Ohio, Iowa, and Nationally, Makes It Very Likely He Will Win.
Obama’s ground game is very potent and will likely decide this election. PPP reports that 19% of likely voters in Ohio have voted, and by the extreme margin of 76-24 for Obama. That showcases the difference in muscle between the Obama and Romney organizations. When last I saw, Obama’s campaign had contacted 7% or so more voters than Romney’s at two different points the subject was studied. The strong implication is that Obama’s voter contact is connected to a concrete outcome – getting and delivering early ballots – and that Romney’s is not.
There are other data less striking but which underscore the difference between the two campaigns and their efficacy in promoting early voting. Reuters/Ipsos is reporting that Obama leads Romney 59-31 among those reporting early voting (presuming that the rest are not stating a preference to the pollster, one can infer that close to two-thirds of all early votes are being cast for the President). Other sources are indicating that Democrats are early-voting in greater numbers in Iowa and North Carolina than did so in 2008, while Republicans are early-voting less in North Carolina.
In 2008, President Obama overperformed his poll numbers more in Nevada than in any other state, polling +7 and winning by 12 (an overperformance of +5). Senator Reid in 2010 overperformed his expected performance by 8, turning polls of -3 into a win of +5. Given what we have seen of the Democratic and Obama ground game in Nevada, it is very hard to see how President Obama is suddenly going to perform at or worse than polls there – and Romney has not led in one this year. President Obama is very likely to win Nevada, and that same ground game is why.
Applying the methodology of comparing final poll averages to outcomes, one sees that President Obama also overperformed his polls by 2 points in winning Virginia by 6. The Obama ground game there – where he leads very narrowly in the average of post-debate polls – is likely to make the difference in another jump ball election.
Again, one has to overlay the indications that Democrats are far more organized and getting out the vote in Ohio, Nevada, and Iowa, for example, with an awareness that adding them and safe New Mexico to the Kerry states would give President Obama 281 EVs – and no need even to hold Wisconsin – putting aside the good likelihood he will win jump-ball Colorado and Virginia with a ground game when polls show Romney up 1 and down 1, respectively, in those two states.
Conclusion: 80% Likelihood of an Obama Win Seems About Right.
From my review of the foregoing, I am confident that today, President Obama would win the election, and is winning it by a fair and neutral understanding of the data. Mitt Romney has a clear path to victory, but it is narrow – he must continue to thump a now-more-motivated President in debates that play more to his strengths. (It is harder to thump an engaged incumbent President in a townhall session of expressing empathy for voters while answering their concerns, and harder to thump an incumbent who enjoys more credibility on foreign affairs with only a harder line on Iran and Afghanistan, the Benghazi attack, and a great deal of agreement, than it was to win decisively in Denver.) And even if Mitt Romney wins debates, there are far fewer independent voters available to him now than before, precisely because his status as roughly tied depends on already having them.
Base-revving is not going to win Nevada for Mitt Romney, given the superior performance of the Democratic base in 2008 and 2010, and judging from the PPP survey of Ohio, the auto bailout and Romney’s “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” response are holding him down there with white independents, as the President leads Romney by 5 in an Ohio sample that reports preferring Republicans in Congress by 2. And to win, Romney needs Ohio, Florida, and North Carolina, and could still lose by losing WI, NV, IA, CO (272 EVs), or WI, NV, VA (270 EVs). Based on all of this, Romney can win, and has done well to stay in the hunt. But far from being “ahead” as his wishful throng of trailing media would have it (Gallup, Rasmussen, RealClearPolitics, FOX), he must still win debates and thread a needle. The far greater likelihood is that he will not.
Prompted by Peggy Noonan's claim in The Wall Street Journal that "we are in the midst of the worst Washington scandal since Watergate," Andrew Sullivan steps forward to defend Pres. Obama's honor. "Can she actually believe this?," he asks incredulously.
By Julian Pecquet, The Hill, May 18, 2013
Congress is ramping up a new round of sanctions against Iran, ignoring the Obama administration's request to let diplomacy run its course.
In back-to-back hearings this week, lawmakers on key House and Senate panels put the State and Treasury departments on notice that their patience is wearing thin after the latest round of talks last month failed to produce a deal. Both chambers have legislative efforts in the works – the House foreign affairs panel will vote next week – but the administration is warning against any moves that could undermine international support for the existing sanctions against Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program [....]
By Carl Zimmer, New York Times/Science, May 16/17, 2013
An article that summarizes the recent work of Ya-Ping Zhang, a geneticist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, who has led an international network of scientists who have compared pieces of DNA from different canines which is pointing to the theory that dogs domesticated themselves.
But the article's message is not just what it first appears to be. When you get to the concluding paragraphs there are some real though provokers:
[....] SLC6A4 may have played a crucial part in this change, because serotonin influences aggression.
To test these ideas,...
By Neha Paliwal, Passport @ ForeignPolicy.com, May 17, 2013
On Friday, chaotic clashes broke out in Georgia as an angry mob -- comprised mainly of young men but also including robed priests and some women -- descended on a gay rights rally commemorating International Day Against Homophobia. A day earlier, the head of the Georgian Orthodox Church had demanded that authorities stop the rally, calling it a "violation of the majority's right."
According to EurasiaNet, the mob, which numbered...
By Miriam Elder in Moscow, The Guardian, May 17, 2013
Federal Security Service spokesman breaches protocol as he accuses US agency of crossing 'red line' in its recruitment efforts
Once again, the next US presidential election will be fixed. Mitt Romney will be elected even though Barack Obama would have received more votes in the 2012 election. The political assassination will be perpetrated by Bush hiding behind Crossroads GPS, the most influential group of Neocons.
The Neocons will have Mitt Romney elected to first use him and then let him fall easy prey. All blames and responsibilities will fall on the new Mormon president for the events already planned.
The new World War of Religion is already a done deal behind the backs of all people which will be forced to fight for their own Countries in their obligation as citizens.
…………
Since 9/11 it's the War on Terror.
One "false flag" attack so called by error.
Blair, Bush, and Israel had a Pact in store.
Their next surprise is knocking at your door.
A hidden vile Idea from those who want "more".
will use you and your Belief for the next World War.
As "chosen people" gain while Humankind loses.
Greed wins not by the swords but by the words of Moses.
Daring is to tell you when, better then to tell you rhymes.
could not side with either one to get ready for our times.
to look beyond and past today to seek for a solution.
one only hope is there for you and spells Wavevolution
...................
A new type of Revolution wins with the ultimate weapon:
Your Mind
http://www.wavevolution.org/en/humanwaves.htm
A lot here, and very nicely done.
Just regarding the VP debate. I think the lasting effect of Palin is that people are a little more sensitive about who the VP is. A lot of people tuned in to see who this Ryan is (as others tuned in just to see what Biden might say). Ryan made it past the "is he ready?" threshold, but in the process people saw him try to deal with the abortion and budget issues.
I think unlike Biden, Ryan is viewed as reflection of Romney. This has to do in part with people still wondering where Romney stands and will take any sign they can get. In this regard, Romney would have done better, if he was going to do the grand "pivot" to the center, to take a more moderate VP candidate.
So if Romney flattens out in the polls, it will be difficult to directly attribute it to the VP debate, but I think it has a significant impact on the moderate undecideds. Moreover, aside from the performance by Scrappy Joe from Scranton, Ryan reminded the based why they need to GOTV, and whether it is reflected in the polls, ignited a sense of urgency among those in the base.
A-man, that's a fascinating analysis and reassuring. It seems that if Ohio holds up, the odds are very good.
I don't know how to do the math, but there is a great advantage to the high turnout on early voting in that as you bank votes you can progressively increase your focus on the those remaining.
And hooray for Arizona. That was a surprise.
It is no coincidence that the areas where the greatest amount of political advertising by the Obama campaign are showing less bounce as a result of the debate. This is especially true in Ohio. Your basically somewhat unengaged undecideds in say Wyoming who saw almost not a single anti-Romney commercial saw the debate differently than the blue collar undecided in Ohio who has been swamped in Bain Outsourcing 47% commercials.
Thanks, Oxy. OH looks very solid. A 4, 5, and 6 in the last week is great. Even the -1 from Gravis reads like a lead. Romney must realize that OH is slipping away, having spent four days there, and Ryan two, both in the last week. OH is Obama's Electoral College advantage, he just has to close the deal.
There was also a poll earlier this week (I think SUSA) showing that that very few had early-voted then, but that Obama was up 57-37 among them. The data are very consistent, not in the precise margin, but in showing the phenomenon. It is hard to win a jump ball race based upon TV ads and no ground game, and Obama has outspent Romney big in OH.
Arizona is going to send either 5 GOPers and 4 Dems or 5 Dems and 4 GOP to the House this fall, is 50/50 in its Senate race, and as yesterday's poll showed, the Latino vote is even more polarized in favor of Obama here than is so nationally (77/10 for those who missed the internals). I still think Romney will win Arizona, and the polls yesterday were a bit surprising in that Obama was running almost as strong as the Democratic Senate candidate, Dr. Carmona, while prior polls would suggest a greater gap between them. But I think Romney's margin in a national Obama 50-48 win might well be Romney by 3 or so.
Arizona highlights Romney's rock and hard place dilemma. What happens if 2% of the base who don't vote in the non-presidential elections say Romney is no different than Obama, and just stay home?
Lots of interest here. Glad to hear the Democratic ground game is hard at work and that Ohio feels so solid.
But a couple of arguments which aren't working for me.
For instance, I find nothing in point #2 which feels like having much reality. The ideas of "space" and "boundaries" are fine, but to define them by a candidate's "highest average national tracking poll status to date" isn't very strong. Put simply, people and teams come from behind all the time. I'm a St Louis Cardinals fan, and their comebacks have made me very happy. It could happen to the Republicans too. In sum, an electoral space is simply not bounded by what has happened to date. This also means that a series of ideas which follow also fail.
In particular, the idea that Obama can more easily make marginal gains by behaving "adequately" strikes me as a long way from right. What we saw in the last debate was not an earth-shaking performance by Romney I think, just a reasonably competent one. I'm not sure there was a killer zinger, or grand soul-crushing moment, or lightning image. He just stood up, talked somewhat normally, and Obama looked poor.
A bit bizarre, but I think it's only fair that we regard Romney functioning without huge gaffes as being an "adequate" performance rather than "overperforming." (Unless, of course, your idea of "overperforming" is to say that each time Mitt does something which people rate as better than Obama's version is "overperforming," because he's lagged in historic polling.)
Most important, to be stuck on historic polling between these two would be to open oneself to truly being blind-sided.
This is reinforced by point #1. I believe the argument earlier was that somehow, Mitt could only possibly gain 2% from the debate. Whereas now he appears to have gained 4-6%. (Possibly.) I would suggest that somehow historic performance is being used a bit too tightly to determine the "potential" size of voter movements. It's one thing to use historic patterns to get a sense of an average, or even a likely range, but every election tends to break at least a few historic patterns.
Another factor which I'm not seeing mentioned is the likely scale and effect of Republican efforts to suppress the vote, distort the vote, lose the vote, or steal the vote. I work from the assumption that there are always a couple of percentage points at play through these sub-legal maneuvers, and with questions of who has the advantage in any given year. But with the noise being made about Republican attempts to eliminate potential Democratic voters, I give them a bit of a lean here.
All told, maybe general Republican Party insanity, and Mitt's particular unloveliness will hand the election to the Dems. That would be nice to believe. But I don't see the arguments under point #2 having much traction, and wonder a bit at how much the cheat is already on.
Responding to your points on #2. To be a bit clearer, I have argued that the range is Obama +6 to Romney +1, and that happens to roughly correspond to the last month of observed reality. The way I wrote it may suggest that I have argued that range based upon the trackers of the last month, but I have seen it that way and argued that way since before that, and I find the last month of data to be corroborative.
As to why I think it is that way, it's both a function of feel on my part, which is entirely nonscientific, except that I tend to have a pretty good sense of data sets and predicting stuff. More relevant to the general reader who does simply trust the hypotheses of some reasonably well-spoken anonymous writer, Obama's ceiling is easy. There is really no way to conceive of him equaling or exceeding his previous 7 point margin of victory. His approval rating has fluctuated in a pretty tight range, with its apparent high barely above 50, also consistent with the idea that he can't get 53% or more in a general.
Romney's ceiling is trickier, but not that hard to argue for. Nate Silver has an excellent post on the Republican base from around the time of the Ryan selection. Unlike much of what Nate does, it is heavily demographic in its predictions. Nate wrote about the percentages of the black, white, and Latino votes. The Democratic vote shares in the black and Latino lanes are very well-studied and largely invariant. They did not dip notably with the debate, for example. That leaves white voters as "swingier." If you look in IBD/TIPP, you'll see most of the recent motion is with the independent, largely white voters. That's where Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida have moved in poll internals. And, returning to the point you question, even with Obama at 36% of the white vote, he's doing alright. He and Kerry had 41 and 43 percent of it. For Romney to win, he needed by his own adviser's reckoning, 61% of the white vote. That number simply can't be driven much higher even in theory, and the usual 4% or so advantage of incumbency makes it even less plausible that Obama can be brought below 36%, which presently is worth a 1% lead in IBD/TIPP. This is even more true when you see the emphasis on abortion, and realize that Obama is at 40% among white women.
All of that informs my judgment as to where the limit lies. Clearly, if Obama personally ordered security called off in Benghazi, or Romney admits tax evasion, these limits are provisional. Otherwise, they probably aren't.
Back on "overperforming," the best I can tell you is that Silver, like myself, regards Romney as now overperforming. He's close to the limit of what he can do when he's +20% with independents, and leading Florida, back to almost tied in Nevada, and very close in Wisconsin, and doing it mostly on the backs of maxing out his base and Caucasian voters in particular, which Nate wrote (in the post to which I alluded) seemed a bit too narrow of a base to permit a win.
I did point out early on that I underestimated Mitt's debate gains. OTOH, my argument that it is supposed to be 6 is based on a very selective parsing of the highest peaks and lowest valleys in the national tracking sources from which I worked. It seems clear that it was at least 3 or 4. But it also seems clear that in most of the states I analyzed more closely, it really was 2-3, much as I suggested. Maybe FL is the outlier and the rest are the "true" bounce, such as it is.
I am not a big believer in election-stealing. Planning on doing some form of voting-related public service on the day of still, but to be back here in time to liveblog the evening. Most of the attempts to disqualify or pass onerous laws have been failures, and I think have energized the left more than anything. I also don't think there was a conspiracy in OH in 2004, so I'm no fun. I suspect based upon Republican theorizing that the polls actually understate Obama's standing that if Obama wins we will have lots of equivalent sour grapes conspiracy theories about stealing votes. I prefer on that basis to oppose laws restricting the franchise, but not to credit nebulous theories of those sorts. They corrode democracy, IMO.
Speaking of conspiracies, I think the big one will be that the liberal pollsters conspired to show Romney tied with Obama, making sure that Democrats to believe they needed to go out to vote. Just before the debate all the talk was about how the biggest dilemma for Obama campaign was people believing he had it in the bag and those on the left would think they didn't need to vote. Thus, the first debate performance and the resulting poll results were all part of a grand conspiracy to ensure the victory.
Are you suggesting he has morphed into Drama Obama?
All I am suggesting is that Obama had a conversation with the smoking man.
Limbaugh had been talking on the other side for weeks about how the polls showing Obama ahead after the convention were all a liberal conspiracy to demoralize Republicans by convincing them Romney couldn't win to "suppress voter turnout." I think that's interesting - Republicans arguing their people would only fight if they knew they were going to win, Democrats arguing the opposite.
I hope you're right that most of the disqualification efforts have failed. We just saw a Federal election up here that threw off some distinct stench of illegality, and Canadians don't tend to admit to that stuff easily. We had lots of robocalling to direct people to the wrong site, and - much uglier - the fact that the Conservatives figured out how to access - and direct - very large numbers of "captured" immigrant voters. Including a fair old number who were ficticious. This was a surprise, as we didn't think they had gotten into those communities that heavily, but it happened, and helped swing the 25+ Toronto marginal ridings that moved, and won it for the C's. My point being, the effort was new, and appeared to be rather effective.
Moving on, part of the issue is, I guess, a difference in how you and I would phrase things. A term like "boundary" to me means pretty much a wall, something we're not going to go through. Picture the boards around a hockey rink. I think for you, it's more permeable, not so impossible to move through. Maybe picture the Arizona-Mexico border. ;-)
Anyway. What I learned in my years hacking on this sort of thing is that there are always, always always always, a dozen dozen forces in play. And that therefore what we can "conceive" needs to be very broad indeed, because otherwise, we cut ourselves off from opportunities, and don't see the opposition coming.
So for example, when you say that "There is really no way to conceive of him (Obama) equaling or exceeding his previous 7 point margin of victory" well, actually, there is. There are lots of ways, in fact. The aging of the population can help Dems, as can the ethnic shift, as can the fact that the Republicans have been so obstructive, have clearly insane economic policies, etc. All of which make it possible for me to "conceive" of an 8 point win for Obama, or even 9. And that's without assuming Romney doesn't throw off another couple of utterly disheartening (for the GOP) gaffes, which he could.
Again, when we see phrases like "He's close to the limit of what he can do when he's +20% with independents," I guess I'd say it's best to ease back the use of terms like "limit" when we don't actually know whether it's at 22%... or 24%... or maybe 26%.
Because the net result of these things is that the potential game opens up more, say, to a universe where we could see Obama winning by +8% and Romney by +4%.
And that means, Romney could still win this. In popular vote terms, he would win it clearly and decisively. We need to know that that is a real possibility, and that it could lead to him winning this thing outright, not just through some long long long shot that finds its way through.
I guess the strongest case we have right now for a Dem win is that in the key Electoral College states, Obama is leading. What worries me is that you're arguing they're not moving right now, and you can't see much more room for Romney. Thus, he loses. But if he's got room for one more long stride forward, another 2% swing, and if it happens by him hitting some issue or sub-segment of the population, we're not gonna have much time to undo it.
So.... I hope Obama's team has geared up not just to do a solid defensive debate, but also to fend off any sharp new thrusts from Romney. Best case would be if he had a couple of new angles himself, ways to try and open up some of the Romney vote and not just look to back in. e.g. Does Obama have a catchphrase a line an image an idea a story.... that will knock Romney the hell out?
I do see a path for Romney, and it is about 2% more, and it would come from a big further win in debates. But I don't think Obama will perform that poorly, and think it likely he will stick to key messaging points and some attacks that are central to their differences, and that Obama will drift up a point or two.
But no, if Romney performs well, there will be no time to undo that. It would then come down to OH, VA, NV, and WI.
You don't have to convince me on the need to enter debates with plans and devices set to run. Clearly didn't happen last time.
But yes, estimating a 20% chance of loss means I agree Romney can easily win. I see that in today's 538, Obama ticked up again to 63. Lots of room to improve.
I do think the intensely polarized electorate is one in which Obama could not hit or exceed his 2008 win margin, have to agree to disagree.
I think the Republicans are benefiting from "the soft bigotry of low expectations".
Partly due to their own marketing - they make standing still a major triumph.
And the Dems actually helped construct these low expectations, by endlessly yammering about his incompetence and what a bad campaign he was running etc etc. Which sets the Republicans up for a favourite move - getting to position their guy as the underdog, the guy belittled by the smart-mouths. Arrrrrgh.
We've had a dozen major Republican figures that we've targeted with ridicule, often aiming at their intelligence and competence, each time running the enormous risk that we get this backlash. Ronald Reagan was a joke - Bedtime for Bonzo - except now they're aiming to put him on Rushmore. George W Bush won twice, and was a buffoon. George HW Bush got mocked as a wimp, won, and decided to kick half the world's ass in a war. Gerry Ford lost by only 25,000 votes, even after pardoning Nixon and a million skits on his clumsiness. And Nixon won twice.
Yes, we can get Republican VP's, and they seem to be an acceptable sacrifice to ridicule. But I think we need to target Republican political leaders more for their meanness, or the negative impacts of their bad ideas - but not for their stupidity, or gaffes, incompetence or low intelligence.
I've argued it a few times already, but here we are, with this asshole, Romney, standing within reach of a win. I can hear the media voices now. "As he has so many times, after being counted out, blah blah blah." It makes me physically ill to see Republicans positioned to run their guy down the stretch as the goddamn UNDERDOG.
I swear to God, sometimes Democrats are the dumbest fuckers on the Earth.
I can only hope that Obama sucking in Debate #1 was his way of attempting to drop into the under-dog/comeback kid position.
Let us pray.
Romney was running a bad campaign. If anyone thinks otherwise, let me pull up an empty chair and make you watch me yell at it for 12 minutes. Or maybe I could insult the Olympics in London or launch a bombastic feckless attack based on a factual error on 9/11, etc. There was no targeting or framing required. That was objective reality. But he didn't win the debate because of low expectations, he won because he won.
Indeed, if anyone can win a debate by showing up and doing ok, it may be the President tomorrow. I'm not saying he shifted expectations vastly, but I did hear they're calling the downshifted range of his expected debate performances the Underton Window.
Romney is very far from the underdog populist who was Reagan, but the identification in feeling picked on is not dissimilar. Nonetheless, conservatism under Reagan wasn't as deeply angry. That started in 1994.
I don't see Bush 41 the way you say, though. He continues to improve in memory.
Agree completely that it was a bad campaign. But too many people started talking about that, and not so much about the substance of his bad proposals. e.g. The empty chair thing. Bad idea, politically, to go near mocking Clint. Anyway. The campaign has been better at not mocking than the wider world of Democratic commentators.
And no, Romney is no Reagan yet. He's trying to get there though.
[As a side discussion for another day... How angry are Conservatives? For some reason, from time to time you make these references to the 1990's, as though things went all south from there on. I'm not convinced. I was in college in 1980, and the level of fear amongst the center-left, with Reagan and Haig and Watt and Thatcher and co. was pretty frigging high. These guys rode off and created wars in Latin America, and made some seriously scary sounds at the Soviets. This was an era in which, for instance, young Tories in Britain were a very nasty crowd, much nastier than today's Cameron'esque Tories. Also, historically, there were some nasty-ass U.S. conservatives in the 1950's and such. I guess I'm saying, yes, there's a widespread sour and embittered angle to conservatism today, perhaps more widespread than before, but that political vehicle has always had some pretty awful people under the hood. Pun sortof intended.]
[[Also, Bush 41 does not improve with age. He got us into the Iraq thing, where the U.S. was playing at being a clever-dick with Iran, and doing crap diplomacy, and then being tight with money when they could have fixed the problem early, and easily, with Saddam. People can try and complexify that history all they like, but we were funding a thug, we both had the same #1 enemy, our thug went broke, we took our eye off the ball for a larger issue, then bungled our signals to him, and when he did something stupid, we decided we needed to have some glorious global coalition against him. And surprise surprise, Bush 41 was seen as a wimp, and needed an image change. Also, the ending of the war was then ballsed up and thus, the whole thing sent into extra innings. Nice to know that the game's still on though. So unless people are all into how well the guy created a global photo op - when the U.S. was regarded as having just taken down the #2 superpower and thus, were the only guy left standing - I'm not sure how he gets his props. However. Another day.]]
My comment wasn't praise for Reagan's foreign policy. It was very hawkish and aggressive. I am talking about the anger that came into how conservatives talked about Clinton, liberals, the poor, and now Obama, government employees, people receiving transfer payments. The domestic and cultural combat has gotten nastier and more extreme in tone. Whitewater and the 1994 Congressional campaign took the nasty to a higher and more distilled level. I'm very attuned to McCarthyism and related strains in conservatism, but with the monolithic nature of the present GOP, and 20 years of AM talk radio driving it, the decency and conciliation found among Nelson Rockefeller, Jerry Ford, of Bush 41, and many in the Senate, is now gone. The answer seeps deeper into the rank and file folks, I think, at least the ones I know and talk to.
As to Bush 41, again, you're making the same move of taking a policy you are sure is wrong, such as proxy war in the Middle East, and situating the Iraq War in this case in it, to say why it was wrong. Saddam Hussein's attack on Kuwait was not any better because of any criticism of US client-state policies in the 1980s viz-a-viz Iraq and Iran. It was still bad, and a fit subject for intervention. (Didn't Bill Clinton support it while he opposed it? I forget.) The ending of the war was bad, but it in no way necessitated the Second Iraq War, which cannot be fairly hung on the good project of expelling Iraq from Kuwait. And Bush 41 raised taxes to keep government spending closer to what it took in. We praise Bill Clinton's 1993 tax increase, why not Bush's?
I think maybe the seeming upsurge in anger at Clinton and co. was maybe simply hidden by the fact that they were running things for the previous 12 years. If you turn back the clock and watch 1968 or 1972, there wasn't a whole lot of love on the Right for McGovern or the peacenik kids or blacks or a whole lot of people, frankly. And it was fairly often of a physical violent nature. By 1980, the hostility to Carter was unreal, in my recollection, and there was a whole grass-roots rising-up on the Right in that era as well. So part of what we see with Clinton is a resurgence of the resentful, who translated at least 50% of that energy into being the most smug-faced big-mouthed pricks on Earth during the Reagan years.
As for Bush, you're making the same move of breaking up a flow in time, and then placing a judgment on just one moment. ;-) That is, I have no strong or pre-fixed views on proxy wars. I outlined a bit of the flow of decisions and actions and inactions, and most of that involved, quite centrally, one George HW Bush. To then crown him as doing a "Good" thing, somehow separate from a whole set of bad decisions and inactions, is irrational. Similarly, to bust off the end of the war, seems to me to be unnecessarily limiting of any historic judgment on how he handled things. I get why it's intellectually fun, but I'm not sure this method of breaking history into moments which are somehow disconnected, and then arguing whether or not a President did well with one particular moment is a useful one. Especially if he's around for the early ones as well, and if the results of his efforts produced large ongoing problems that were simply lost amidst a politically-driven desire to "celebrate" a "victory." (Although it did set things up nicely for his son to claim credit, again, for beating up Saddam.)
Though he did raise taxes. Insofaras he was responsible or courageous or smart in doing that, I give him one free brownie from the Great Tray of History.
I think ending the First Iraq War without deposing Saddam Hussein made little sense and detracts a great deal from that war's purposes. I think that war was more significant and purposive than a single moment, but it also doesn't make his a good Presidency. But it's completely noncomparable to the 2003 invasion. So with the taxes, and David Souter, I give him three brownies, and not one.
Also, gave us George Jr.
I think that pretty much wraps things up here.
He lost his brownie when he pardoned Cap Weinberger, who'd brazenly lied to Walsh during investigation of Iran-Contra when he denied taking notes despite the hidden existence of his daily diary (much more brazen than Scooter Libby). This set in play complete contempt of Congressional oversight by Republicans - just lie now, pardon later.
I hear those pardon-brownies are Rich. It's a Swiss mix.
The curious thing about Rich is he didn't accept his pardon.
Why not? Because the conditions were too harsh - he would have had to risk civil fines to return to the US, only the criminal charges would be voided, and those were always a bit iffy. (focus on words "a bit" - Rich was charged under the RICO act in 1983 - one of our great grabbag provisions and one Justice had stopped using for cases like Rich's 12 years before the 2001 pardon, in 1989.)
Verdict? Clinton got a bad rap. Plus it had little to do with destroying our government, the Constitution and security, such as Watergate (Ford pardon), Iran-Contra (Bush Sr. pardon) and the Plame leak (Bush Jr. pardon).
And it's rather absurd that Bush Sr. and Cap Weinberger and William Casey ran a whole Iran-Contra oil-for-arms smuggling operation during this period around 1985, yet we're still remembering Marc Rich's financial gains from trading with Iran in 1983? Isn't that absurd?
Everyone who gets pardoned is a criminal. I think it's more the financial contributions Rich's ex-wife made that made the pardon improper, not the fact that he did this or that crime. He may have been part of the 1%, you never know.
I have very different views of the merits of these various pardons. Because Ford had nothing to do with Watergate, it is far more defensible than the Iran-Contra pardons by an executive whose knowledge was at issue.
Bush 43 commuted Libby's remaining sentence, but did not pardon him outright. Libby was fined $250,000 which he seemingly paid out of pocket, served 400 hours of community service, was disbarred (like President Clinton), was left on probation for two years, and still has an unpardoned felony conviction on his record.
Everyone who gets pardoned is a criminal.
Although neither tried nor convicted of any crime, former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger was 'pardoned' in December, 1992 by President George H. W. Bush.
Yeah, that was sweet, shut down an investigation early by pardoning the suspects.
You're right, the old Anticipatory Pardon.
I'm mixed on Ford's pardon, but was it a quid-pro-quo, "you get to be President if you promise to pardon me"? Or was it to save the country more anguish? (Ford seems to deserve more respect, but who knows?)
Good point on Libby - not a complete whitewash - as Dick Cheney grumbles.
I do respect Ford's pardon. It was conventional wisdom then that it would kill him, and I think it was fairly brave, though there was a great argument for further prosecution of Nixon. In his case alone, public shaming was at least arguably fitting as a primary punishment. Others who injure the public good in the years since that have no shame about it, maybe reducing the wisdom of pardons for offenses against representative government.
I personally think a lot of the hatred of Nixon was irrational (hey, he wound down the Vietnam War much faster than Bush/Obama wound down Iraq or Afghanistan; what about the EPA?), and his downfall was shameful enough.
Would those who followed suffered the same shaming, I'd be content. Even though the images I concoct for Cheney have a bit more shame involved.
My God you American boys have gone all soft.
Here we are, all happily going on about "moral hazard" and the banks, while that psychopath Nixon wandered around with a hit list of enemies, throwing everything he could imagine at them, but "shame" is enough?
They should have dragged all their asses through the roughest legal terrain imaginable, and made sure that ALL the dirty laundry they were up to got aired. None of this after-the-fact "he wasn't so bad" or "Nixon and Clinton both failed their countries" nonsense. I think it would have helped ease the likelihood of Reagan and co's backroom evils as well. There's just no way, in a democracy, that chasing down individual citizens for cheating with food stamps or on their taxes seems at all sane when the goddamn President can put the hate on anyone, in legal or illegal ways, and then walk.
Still. Real glad we got all that Whitewater thing out in the open. Important to have that get some fresh air, eh?
"Americans - Impossible To Understand Since Oh, About 1974."
Wasn't equating them.
In defense of the royal we not fixing Watergate, I was seven then.
Well, that'd make you 9 by the time Ford pardoned him.
That's pretty much age of consent.
And to quote an old political commentator of the time, I believe that makes you - Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! ;-)
I remember staying up to watch the Carter-Ford election, it was cool. I also remember the debates.
You'll never catch me rehabilitating Nixon, though.
They tried to make me rehab, but I said No No No.
I never see the following idea when the conversation is about Libby. Maybe you can say if it makes sense legally and so may have been part of the reasoning behind the non-pardon.
If Libby had been pardoned then he could not have used the 5th Amendment to avoid answering further questions if related investigations were carried further. He could have been compelled to answer and liable for another prosecution if he lied. Important people might have worried about that.
Of course it ended up not mattering, but Bush couldn't have known that for sure when he acted.
A pardon could, as you suggest, have created immunity for the pardoned acts that would indeed prevent the assertion of the Fifth Amendment as a bar to questioning. I personally doubt that motivated Bush, who hardly incentivized the bitter Libby to stay on the reservation by resisting Cheney's calls for a pardon.
I doubt he needed much incentive to stay on the reservation even if he was bitter. He had nowhere else to go. Bush had no incentive to take any chance. Chaney could very well have been singing one song in public and pushing contradicting levers in private. Might have even been part of the understanding, A deal Libby couldn't refuse.
"We'll swear you deserved better but this is the best we can do. Take it or take it".
My sense is that despite all of the cheating and dirty tricks the republicans will have going for them that the president will win. I suspect that we may not know the results 'on' election day though and would rather wait for them then let it be called for Romney without counting all votes.
Nate Silver, October 15, 6:42 am:
Also see ‘‘The. Polls. Have. Stopped. Making. Any. Sense.’’ from October 4 (New York Magazine)
Except the national polls (today's WaPo Obama +3, today's GWU Obama +1, yesterday's IBD/TIPP Obama +0.7, today's RAND Obama +4.5) -- other than Ras/Gallup -- do seem to exist in the same universe as the state polls consistently showing Obama narrowly up in Ohio and Nevada.
Ras/Gallup, not so much. Gallup's universe of registered voters shows Obama up 3, while WaPo is 7. They both show the same gap from RV/LV, which is significant. Ras' universe of registered and likely voters is a bit pinched.
There's also an inconsistency that was more pronounced before September 30 between Ras' national data set and states. Obama was doing better in OH, VA, FL and worse in the national Ras. Made no sense. I have not observed that lately, however.
A-man, would you mind parsing more the effects of WaPo's increased percentage of Democrats responding? Has that come out in the wash as far as the three point lead is concerned? Thanks.
Partisan affiliation varies from poll to poll, moment to moment. I don't ascribe much significance to those fluctuations, and tend to prefer cross-sectional polling to polling that sets out get X percentage of Democrats or Republicans, which is simply a way of reverse-engineering what you'd like a real set of 100 folks (or 600, or 1200) to say.
Over the weekend, Nate's lines started moving out, away from each other, again.
Barely, though today's data will likely continue that modest trend, with the WaPo, the GWU, and the silly Gravis poll in Colorado.
Almost hate to bring this up, A-man, but...
And not being a polling expert, I'm not sure I can parse this argument exactly...
It is akin to the charge that the earlier polls were skewed toward Obama...
I think the argument goes that the polls assumed a larger Democratic turnout--perhaps based on 2008's turnout-- which led to an over sampling or over-weighting of Democratic voters.
Gallup, apparently, switched to likely voters a bit later than usual, and Romney's count went up. I guess the thought here is that, while there are more Democrats, Republicans are more likely to vote.
Don't know if I've captured the argument, but maybe you can sort it out a bit.
Gallup both switched to LV later and modestly tweaked its methodology two weeks ago, and Romney's vote share went up, which at that point would be expected. On September 20 or so, LV/RV would have been roughly equal in most polls, but maybe not Gallup. Gallup like other major pollsters sees an LV/RV gap. The WaPo gap is same-sized. It's impossible to be clear about what Gallup did methodologically because it was so late in the day and also was done around the time of the major postconvention event, the Denver debate.
As I mentioned above, I am not a fan of partisan weighting. But I don't think it drove Obama's lead. And the state polls, which tend to sample without regard to it, have tended to run a bit better for Obama. The state polls are my response to everything Gallup. To paraphrase the Dire Straits song Industrial Disease, two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong. If Gallup's weighting and method are right, either the state poll consensus is very consistently off by 2-3, or Obama has that arguably mythical Electoral College advantage.
It does seem as if Romney caught up in NH, though.
Does Gallup...or any of the polls...release details on its methodology so one can judge what is going on?
Do you think Nate Silver has access to this information to work his formula even if the hoi polloi do not?
There seems to be a lot of argumentation from people who implicitly claim to know lots of inside methodological stuff about the polls.
One of Nate's recent posts linked to Gallup's explanation of its methods and changes to them, and HuffPo had a great detailed explanation of how Gallup works a few weeks ago. Nate does sometimes contact pollsters and discuss methodology with them, but I think the information is generally out there and not secret, just not bannered up front in ways that make it easy to see.
The conservative with whom I was speaking said, given that Romney was way ahead with independents, Obama would have to have a turnout factor of like D+12 to give him the lead he appeared to have late last month.
I don't know if Romney's captured independents by the double-digits he quoted...but this is what led him to surmise that the polls were over sampling registered Democrats.
Of course, lots of tinfoil hat stuff about pollsters pulling for Obama was mixed in.
(For example, he gave some advice to any pollsters who might be listening: Giving Obama the edge might backfire inclining his voters to relax. Don't ask-:)
I know very little about polling, but it seems to me that the only thing the outside pollsters care about is being right after the votes are counted.
Romney's lead with indies is around 10 or so. It was higher a week ago. If Obama keeps it under 10, he should win the election without great turnout differential. That figure would give him Ohio and Nevada.
Well I feel much more positive that Obama will win in Colorado again.
They just hired my daughter to be a field manager for their GOTV in the Denver area (she even speaks some Spanish, but only first year). She is great with people so this is good news:)
Congratulations! What a great thing to get involved in right now. Hope she has fun, too.