Destor on Ordering a Pizza Conservatively in Texas
Ramona: Hatred in a Lovely Church
Gallup: Obama 46, Romney 46
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Destor on Ordering a Pizza Conservatively in Texas Ramona: Hatred in a Lovely Church Gallup: Obama 46, Romney 46 |
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It has been three years since Barack Obama's near-landslide victory of 2008. The question of whether he will be the seventh of the last nine elected Presidents to secure a second term (Bush 43, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Eisenhower, Roosevelt) or the third of the last nine to be a one-termer (Bush 41, Carter) is a close one. Despite his fairly low approval ratings, Obama is apparently roughly a coinflip to win re-election, with the outcome hinging upon his opponent and whether the economy ticks up modestly in the next year. This is a first in an irregular series of previews framing that contest and making observations about particular states.
Obama, Romney Splitting the Vote in the Gallup Twelve
When you win a near-landslide, as did Barack Obama in 2008, you have some margin of popular votes (53-45) and electoral votes (365-173) to spare. Gallup.com has set about polling 12 potential 2012 swing states that Barack Obama won in 2008 (Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire), which comprise a pool, of 151 electoral votes. Gallup has correctly excluded Indiana from the swing state category. Starting from the Obama 2008 states, adjusting for modest changes in the distribution of electoral votes among states based upon the 2010 census, and moving Indiana back into the red column, the tally would be Obama 347-191. Accordingly, to get to the 270 electoral votes needed for re-election, the President must win 74 of the 151 "swing" EVs, yielding no more than 77 to the eventual Republican nominee, which this essay assumes will be Mitt Romney, as that is the most likely answer by far after FOTM (flavor of the month) Herman Cain's recent troubles.
Of course, when it comes to Obama's re-election prospects, it's all gloom and doom if you want it to be. While actual news outlets like the Los Angeles Times correctly convey that Gallup is finding Obama and Romney even in a set of twelve swing states, while propaganda outlets like NewsMax suggest that the Gallup data as to Obama consist of the respondents' view that, by 60-37, they are not better off than three years, which it presents as dooming Obama.
My rough cut for today takes seriously the Gallup finding that currently, President Obama has an approval rating of 42% and a disapproval rating of 50%, but takes as equally important that when pitted against former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, President Obama polls 47-47 nationally, and loses 47-46 among the twelve Gallup swing states. Polling almost exactly evenly both nationally and among the swing states suggests that the EVs of the swing states will be split roughly down the middle. I presently predict, in descending order of safety for Obama, that he will win: (1) Michigan [16 EVs]; (2) Nevada [6 EVs]; (3) Pennsylvania [20 EVs]; (4) Colorado [9 EVs]; (5) North Carolina [15 EVs]; and (6) Virginia [13 EVs]. I presently predict that Romney, in descending order of safety, will win: (1) New Hampshire [4 EVs]; (2) Ohio [18 EVs]; (3) Florida [29 EVs]; (4) Iowa [6 EVs]; (5) New Mexico [5 EVs]; and (6) Wisconsin [10 EVs].
Why This Split Among the Gallup Twelve
It is an interesting challenge to try to parse the data within Gallup's polls to predict state outcomes. Gallup makes the point that in the twelve swing states, 59% of Republicans describe themselves as enthusiastic about voting, while only 48% of Democrats do. Fine. But there are two highly countervailing considerations.
First, though more Republicans describe themselves as highly motivated to vote, there remain in poll internals roughly one-quarter of Republicans who either vote for Obama or claim they will vote for some third candidate, while Obama holds above 85% of self-described Democrats, leaking less of his base. As I have written before, I attribute Romney's lower level of support within his base to a combination of evangelical conservative discomfort with Romney's Mormonism and Tea Party dislike for Romney. I'm more a demographer in modeling things, so I think the former is more important. But for Romney to only hold 74% or so of Republicans in trial heats with Obama is a major problem (though not necessarily insurmountable) for him, and it suggests that the meme that Republican voters remain "more" enthusiastic is overly simplistic. More GOPers are highly motivated, and more GOPers seem like Romney refuseniks at this point. This issue may cure up if and after Romney is nominated, much as Hillary Clinton fans came home to Barack Obama. I tend to think some of these voters will come home, but fewer in proportion than Clinton primary voters who came home to Obama. This will be a critical question for the general election.
Second, simply stating that Republicans are more motivated to vote by the significant but modest margin of 59-48% only describes the likelihood that a person will of their own volition make sure they vote. But the 2008 election was greatly different from recent Presidential elections in that the Democratic candidate deployed a fierce ground game built around great data collection (as to supporters and potential supporters), David Plouffe's relentless focus on Obama's ground game, and an unprecedented fundraising advantage. The results were lopsided wins in Nevada (12 percent) and Colorado (8.5 percent), and narrow wins in GOP Presidential bastions like Virginia and North Carolina, built around ground game and lopsided support from substantial populations of African-Americans. Obama's fundraising radically outstrips Romney's at this point, and Romney is going to be spending at least through February fighting for the Republican nomination. While third party groups are likely to spend more on indirect support of Romney, the sensible prediction is that Obama will have a better ground game, recourse to his 2008 data set, and more money to work from more offices with more volunteers, which will effectively equalize the enthusiasm advantage Romney would otherwise arguably enjoy. It seems plausible after seeing the Democratic ground games overperform poll predictions in Senate races in Nevada, Colorado, and Pennsylvania to think that the ground game advantage with Obama on the ballot will be at least like that in 2010, if not that in 2008. As such, I am tending to predict state-by-state based on 2008 results less the general national deviation for Obama, and not adjusting further down based upon Gallup's assessment that Republicans are generically more enthusiastic.
The countervailing considerations aside, four of the six states seem particularly sound in the fundamentals for Obama. Michigan went so decisively for Obama in the general election (16.5 percent) that it is hard to imagine it coming all the way back to the Republican column. Additionally, the auto bailout will help Obama with his base there. This state has not gone Republican since 1984. Nevada was a twelve percent win for Obama (55-43), and Harry Reid's resounding five percent victory in 2010 when polls showed him losing by three testify to the force of the Latino vote, the labor vote, and the Democratic machine in Clark County. Colorado is a younger, Obama electorate state that trends more neoliberal and technophile, and it rejected Ken Buck for Michael Bennet in a generally dismal 2010 cycle. It is hard to see Obama losing a state won thus in 2010. Also, Nevada and Colorado are states with early voting and no-excuse absentee voting, a factor that works well with Obama's expected organizational advantage. Pennsylvania is tougher. Joe Sestak very narrowly lost the 2010 Senate race there (though he overperformed polls), and the state has the oldest electorate in the U.S., which isn't good for Obama. Nonetheless, Obama won Pennsylvania by 10.4% (above his national win margin) by working the state as heavily as any campaign has ever worked it, while the McCain campaign devoted more time and attention to it than many potential pickups. Like Michigan, Pennsylvania hasn't gone Republican since 1984, but here the skew toward Obama among younger voters hurts.
In this model, two states necessary for Obama's re-election are Virginia and North Carolina, two states won on the strength of his redefinition of the electorate, turning out younger voters in greater numbers and winning them decisively while winning previously unseen margins among African-American voters, who also turned out in historically high numbers. Siting the Democratic National Convention is Charlotte may help slightly, and as a banking center, Charlotte has done better in the recession than some major cities. Obama's approval rating remains close to 50% there, above the current national trend. In Virginia, Obama has been crushing Rick Perry in trial heats and performing well against Romney, suggesting that there will be some carryover from 2008 as well. These states are virtual jump balls, but their large African-American voting populations, and slightly better economic performance during the current recession should make Obama's numbers drop considerably less than the national trend.
And why would Romney win roughly half of the twelve Gallup swing states? Again, if the vote is split almost evenly among them, the current assumption from Gallup, they should be split in some nearly even fashion. But New Hampshire is easy: Obama is relatively unpopular there, Republicans won there as recently as 2000, Romney has a house there, and is likely to crush that primary out of the park, giving the state a positive feel for Romney as it sends him south as a frontrunner. Ohio and Florida were wipeout states for Democrats in 2010, and Obama won them both by only 3 while winning nationally by 7. In races roughly splitting the national popular vote, Florida and Ohio cannot plausibly supply the margin to get a Democrat to 270, 2000 notwithstanding; Kerry also underperformed his national trend in Florida, Obama even more so while winning it, and again, it trends older. George W. Bush won Iowa once, and just as Iowa Democrats were very energized for Barack Obama after his win there, it is likely Iowa's evangelical Republican base will be more energized after the coming caucus, though this state is really a coinflip. New Mexico too is roughly even, though outside Albuquerque, voters came home to the GOP in 2010 in New Mexico, drawing my nod.
Wisconsin is troubling for Democrats, because it was such a narrow win in 2000 and 2004, and went so decisively against Russ Feingold in 2010, and also elected Scott Walker, and still has (even after two recall successes for Wisconsin antiWalkerites) a bare Republican majority in that state's Senate. Obama's approval rating is higher than the national average in Wisconsin, which is a good omen, but the fact remains that the Democratic Party in Wisconsin is more liberal than the average state Democratic Party, and Obama should perform better in a state like North Carolina with a bigger black population and more suburban neoliberals (Raleigh-Durham) than in Wisconsin, with more white left-liberals and trade unionists.
Are There States Outside the Gallup Twelve That Obama or Romney Could Likely Pick Off?
Yes. Obama's campaign is talking up several: Georgia and Arizona in particular. Georgia is interesting, because Obama's approval rating there was most recently 48%, well above his national average. I predicted incorrectly that Obama would win Georgia last time around, and he lost it by 5%. But he also didn't work the state in media until the last week, and he had no ground game. Obama's strong performance in the eyes of the center and right electorate on national security issues may buy him a few points with white voters there, and the math in Georgia does not require Obama to get above 30% of white voters to win. Upper 20s works. Given Georgia's large black population, and the evangelical discomfort with Mitt Romney's Mormonism, Georgia could be a pickup for Obama, though I can't see it being the state to get him to 270, which I think would be either New Mexico, Wisconsin, or North Carolina. Arizona is likewise a state in which Obama can get close, but which would be an implausible pickup unless he wins the national popular vote by 2-3%. True, one recent survey showed Obama ahead of Romney by a margin of 45-40, but that survey showed Obama winning Arizona independents roughly 50-30. The questions are whether Arizona's independents are ready to swing back to the center after handing Republicans a supermajority in the statehouse and victories for every statewide office in 2010. Notably, Latinos went fairly heavily for Democrat Terry Goddard in the 2010 Arizona gubernatorial election -- either 71% or 85% of the Latino vote (depending on who you ask, Pew or VotoLatino), but Goddard still lost 54-42. Obama's approval rating in Arizona is simply too low to make this equation work, in my opinion, but if Obama tops 50% nationally, Arizona is definitely in play. For the same reasons Georgia could be a pickup, look for Romney to win but struggle in South Carolina and Mississippi.
Romney could plausibly win formerly blue states presently seen as outside the Gallup frame of swing states. President Obama's popularity in Oregon is not as high as in Washington, and Republicans have fared reasonably well in recent elections there given the state's financial difficulties in the recession. Minnesota is historically a reasonably close state in Presidential elections. Picking Tim Pawlenty as an attempt to reach into the upper Midwest (and as a bridge to evangelicals) could help make Romney competitive in the Horrible Mosquito State. While independent-minded Maine has voted for the Democrat in each of the last five Presidential elections (and went for Obama by a 17 percent margin), it also has two Republican Senators. Romney is from neighboring Massachusetts (where he was Governor) and New Hampshire (where he maintains a home), and is arguably one of the last of the breed of New England Republicans that once performed well throughout the region. These are states Romney could make a push in.
Conclusion: From Now To March Will Largely Frame the November 2012 Election
The suggestion that horserace focus is premature is silly. An incumbent President's popularirty in the twelfth (now) and thirteenth quarters of their presidency has been highly predictive of reelection. Also, there are fault lines presently exposed in Romney's profile that suggest openings for Obama: (1) Romney's failure even now to run as well as the generic Republican, who beats Obama in most polling; (2) Romney's failure to poll as highly as Obama's disapprove rating, while Obama runs higher than his approve number against Romney, which suggests that voters who disapprove of both may pick Obama in significant numbers; and (3) Romney's weakness with the Republican base, both evidenced by his failure to move past Herman Cain even during Cain's atrocious week, and by the 25% or more of self-described Republicans who don't pick Romney in an Obama-Romney trial heat. The challenge for Obama is simply to get some traction in job generation numbers, which would likely be enough to nudge him ahead. For Romney, it is securing his own base, and getting independents excited about him. The next five months won't end the campaign, but they will be pivotal in addressing all of these questions.
By Ismail Kahn, New York Times, May 23/24, 2012
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.
A tribal court here in northwestern Pakistan found the doctor, Shakil Afridi, guilty of acting against the state, said Mutahir Zeb Khan, the administrator for the Khyber tribal region [....]
By Sergei L. Loiko, Los Angeles Times, May 23, 2012
MOSCOW — Stiff new penalties aimed at opposition protesters were given preliminary approval Tuesday by Russian lawmakers loyal to President Vladimir Putin, the target of mass rallies and demonstrations before his March election victory.
The bill, which opposition parliament members termed draconian and protested by threatening to file out of a legislative session, calls for fines of up to $50,000 and up to 200 hours of community service for organizers of rallies and demonstrations that grow violent or exceed the approved number of participants.
The sanctions were approved on first reading by parliament's lower house, which is controlled by Putin's United Russia party. They mark a return by the Kremlin to a tough stance against critics after concessions during the recent election campaign [...]
Also see:
Russians back Putin, strong leadership
Washington Post, May 22, 2012
A Pew survey of 1,000 Russians found that President Vladimir Putin is well-liked by more than 70 percent of citizens, especially older adults.
Associated Press, May 21, 2012
HAVANA — It was all sunshine, smiles and celebratory speeches as officials marked the arrival of an undersea fiber-optic cable they promised would end Cuba's Internet isolation and boost web capacity 3,000-fold. Even a retired Fidel Castro had hailed the dawn of a new cyber-age on the island.
More than a year after the February 2011 ceremony on Siboney Beach in eastern Cuba, and 10 months after the system was supposed to have gone online, the government never mentions the cable anymore, and Internet here remains the slowest in the hemisphere. People talk quietly about embezzlement torpedoing the project and the arrest of more than a half-dozen senior telecom officials.
Perhaps most maddening, nobody has explained what happened to the much-ballyhooed $70 million project....
By Tamasin Ford in Monrovia, Guardian.co.uk, May 22, 2012
Husbands, not strangers or men with guns, are now the biggest threat to women in post-conflict west Africa, according to a report by the International Rescue Committee (IRC) released on Tuesday.
The IRC report, Let Me Not Die Before My Time: Domestic Violence in West Africa, based on data collected over 10 years by the IRC in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Ivory Coast, said domestic violence is the "most urgent, pervasive and significant protection issue for women in west Africa" [.....]
By Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press, May 22, 2012
WASHINGTON -- Uncle Sam may not want you after all.
In sharp contrast to the peak years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the Army last year took in no recruits with misconduct convictions or drug or alcohol issues, according to internal documents obtained by The Associated Press. And soldiers already serving on active duty now must meet tougher standards to stay on for further tours in uniform.
The Army is also spending hundreds of thousands of dollars less in bonuses to attract recruits or entice soldiers to remain.
It's all part of an effort to slash the size of the active duty Army from about 570,000 at the height of the Iraq war to 490,000 by 2017. The cutbacks began last year, and as of the end of March, the Army was down to less than 558,000 troops.
For a time during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army lowered its recruiting standards [....]
Thanks for this blog. This provides a nice foundational piece in discussing the upcoming election.
The thing that jumps out at me is Wisconsin. After everything that has happened in that state, to think this state could be a factor which puts a Republican into the White House is, to say the least, fascinating. I realize there is the Obama is Republican-lite factor at play, but it is hard to imagine labor thinking a Mitt administration would make their life better than an Obama administration.
Consider the margin by which Feingold lost.
Additionally, consider that among the 12 swing states, the pool of total votes is almost exactly even. If you put them on a curve, Nevada and Colorado look better for Obama based on the 2010 elections. Pennsylvania looks better, but by less; Sestak was a weak candidate in ways and outperformed Feingold, and the state though old is a bit more black. I am going out a bit on a predictive limb classing North Carolina as stronger for Obama today than Wisconsin, but the approval ratings support my view that NC and VA are gettable even if the election were today.
Given the recent rhetoric, one would think Wisconsin is the epicenter of the liberal movement. That someone like Johnson can pull off a victory says a lot about the general population as opposed to those who might feel the need to protest. Nixon had a certain wisdom which is under-estimated.
So did Sauron.
Way to go, you just Gandalf'd the thread.
Gandalf is an arrogant dick. If I want to compare everyone to Sauron, that's just how I roll.
VA and AMan, that you very much for not just satisfying my daily need to seek out comments referencing the trilogy, but for making me laugh so hard.
I gotta finish my pandesol, you two carry on.
Izzat you, Spiro?
Well, I'm just having trouble caring about any of this right now. I'm not saying its silly for people to care about it. I'm just saying I don't have it in me to care.
Right now it feels to me like there is a huge crack in the Zeitgeist, and nothing that any of the major party candidates is saying has any relevance at all to the ideas that are gushing out of the crack. The Republicans are in the Stone Age, and Obama is only a couple of steps ahead of them.. They're all trapped in a world that is disappearing, yoked to institutions that are crumbling. Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy, Cameron - not a one of them has any idea about how to get on top of history. History is racing ahead of them in a thousand different directions. The wreckage might not be pretty - but they're all going to be buried by it.
Ten thousand people made a human ring around the White House today. That's where it's at. That act was probably more significant than any of the tired debates that took place inside the building around which they made a ring. That's just the beginning. If Europe continues to unravel economically and politically, the social concussion is going to be deafening.
Obama is like a guy who keeps trying to patch up his sand castles while the waves buffet it. But there is a tsunami out there.
The question is - if those ten thousand were suddenly given the reins what exactly would they do? Domestic and foreign policy wise.
Why is that an interesting question? Is that going to happen any time soon? Social movements like Occupy are interesting, and can become very important, but that's not the right question now or imminently.
If Europe crumbles, those movements might become far more relevant, far sooner than you expect.
Another post, another debate, another day.
It's an interesting question because so many (those in the streets) today are focused on the idea of getting rid of representational government as a means of solving our problem. The question of whether we work within the given system or overturn it is at the heart of the debate of the current occupy movement which has captured the attention of the left.
Right now one expects the second attempt to levitate the pentagon.
At this point I don't care. I'd prefer creative chaos to the degenerate walking death that 2011 mainstream American politics. I'd take my chances with the Bill McKibbens and Naomi Kleins of the world.
It's cute that you think that the options are the degenerate walking death of the 2012 political choices or the enlightened rule of Naomi Klein.
Not entirely such a stark choice. I think it is very possible that mainstream political actors, grown increasingly anxious about the rising influence of non-conventional figures, and eager to recapture some of the popular support that is being drained away into these non-conventional channels, will begin to modify their positions and agendas.
The piece isn't asking you to care about it, but who the President of the United States is always matters, and usually has pretty stark effects either on the economy or foreign wars.
I see no evidence that conventional political institutions are on the brink of destruction or irrelevance. If politics is not relevant to what gushes in through the crack, the right question is where that gush will flow, and whether it will matter, and how.
Interesting question that I am interested in addressing, though not related to the post.
nice concise way of putting the matter. Romney is the best the left can hope for should the R win and this won't be pretty if it happens. It is possible that the constant refrain of Obama is Republican-lite has made people a little deaf to the realities of the coming election.
Trope, I'm biased of course, but seeing the "lite" thing the other way 'round---in the matchup, Romney as Obama-lite.
If Romney's domestic pitch can be neutralized it seems that the two big areas which remain are personality and defense of the homeland. To my mind the two men are close in personality, more inclined to the rational than the ideological rant. Romney, in New Hampshire was really pressed on the matter of the bank bailouts and finally was cornered into saying the bailouts were necessary whereas Perry or a real Tea Partier would never have given in. I'm concluding, maybe wrongly, that Obamaa has the same tendency---the desire to show that you're the brightest guy in the room by opting for the "analytical". So, which brand of distant but pretty smart guy are you going to pick? Which might make foreign policy more of a deciding factor than it otherwise would be--and why pick the less experienced guy? (Damn, I said "brand". Hmnn, things are always more complicated than I originally think)
I think in a down economy, foreign policy gets you nothing affirmatively, as Bush 41 proved. In American Presidential elections, you can lose points over fear that you'll be weak, but Obama has inoculated himself against that kind of loss. Romney needs a plan to separate himself from the Congressional Republican brand. The thing that's scary about Romney is that he's already running a general election campaign. Very smart, assuming he gets the nomination, which is hard not to assume unless Gingrich catches fire. Cain seems too damaged to me after last week, but maybe he'll be the Comeback Kid or something. I hear that works.
It's not that the institutions are irrelevant, but the people filling them are currently irrelevant, and they are not setting the agenda. They will be scrambling to catch up with events and developments that are racing out ahead of them.
So do we maintain the institutions and merely choose who occupies them, or do we get rid of the institutions altogether?
Flowerchild actually posted about Occupy (and I bannered it), and that it is available for Occupy-related comments. You and Dan are welcome here, but it is very far off-topic.
I understand what you saying, but the issue of enthusiasm of the various sides inevitably brings in the topic of the occupy movement. Just as one could not talk about the 2010 elections without bringing up the Tea Party, it will be impossible to talk about the outcome of the 2012 elections without bringing up those who identify with the Occupy movement.
Occupy is obviously going to be relevant to the election. Its direct action campaigns and events are going to expand. You can't make it all go away by putting a mental box around it.
Of course you can.
Reminds me of Beastie Boys in
We just need a bigger box.
Dan, mental boxes are often used here at Dag. You make some good 'out of the box' points.
Mental boxes at Dag neatly packaged up and disposed of George W. Bush's personal responsibility for ordering the invasion of Iraq with a ribbon of lame excuses, and further absolved Bush of the supreme international crime of starting an aggressive war, by wrapping up the Vietnam and Iraq Wars in the same container, even though there were huge differences. The main ones being the Vietnam War had been going for 10 years or so when the US took over for the French, South Vietnam had a government and it's own forces, while Iraq was at at peace in 2003.
Everyone here opposed the Iraq War, I think without exception. I'm sure I did at least as much as you did at the time. Saying the American people and Congress had something to do with it doesn't absolve George W. Bush of his role in instigating the war.
Whether the institutions survive will depend on whether those who fill them find a way to make them responsive and relevant. Right now they are close to catastrophic failure. The western world is still entangled in a web of debt derivatives. If that web unravels in a string of bank and sovereign government defaults and collapses, plunging us into a truly profound depression, what do you think will be the response of people throughout the western world to governments that spent the past two years doing nothing effective to prevent a repeat of the very same kind of catastrophic failure that hit us all in 2008?
But what alternative to the current institutions is available? In spite of whatever suffering occurs from whatever economic fallout, is there something better to offer? Now if there is a total meltdown, all bets are off. The question is based on the idea that the global system at worse limps along wounded but not not utterly defeated.
There are all sorts of ways current institutions can be reformed, some modest, some profound, some catastrophically revolutionary. Mainstream liberals need to start thinking big and bold, because if they don't get out ahead of events, they are going to fuck us all over when their unimaginative passivity results in a global shit storm.
The biggest problem right now is that politicians are unwilling or politically unable to propose systems for channeling our vast stores of national wealth into a program to save our economies. They are lost in ineffective tinkering, at best, and reactionary austerity at worst.
Given the vast pool the 99% represent, what do you believe is holding back those who could step up and take the political levers to propose the systematic changes needed through the traditional method of electoral politics?
REALITY.
Most rational observers have concluded THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.
The light is being shined into the darker elements, of our political system.
Hope is being replaced with despair and cynicism.
The foundations of this system is crumbling and there are no systems in place to prevent it's demise. Whitewash wont fix it.
No system in place to prevent fear, despair and anxiety. Hate and violence are knocking at the door.
Michael Moore touched on it on with an interview with Pierce Morgan. Everyone knows the next shoe is about to drop. The poor and the middle class ARE going to get screwed first. The rich will not escape.
In regards to the leadership of Obama or for that matter any of the candidates;
Obama's words exposed the reality. If you lower class peasants want something done to help you "Make him do it"
A taunt?
You'll have to make make me do. what I don't have an inclination to do. "You have to make me do it" You have to force me to do it.
He cant or he wont? either way, it looks like were all on our own.
Survival of the fittest, or survival of the politically connected?
The OWS senses were in deep s trouble, we're over our heads in a sea of debt, without a boat or a life jacket. The bankers were saved temporarily, because we haven't dragged them out of the lifeboats yet.
We need a bigger boat.
The 1% knows, the ship is going down, the 99% know the ship is going down.
The 1% got the gold and we got the shaft.
Keep hoping though.
Keep hoping the Revelations, about the bowls of wrath being poured out, won’t occur?
Pray we get to 2012, and continue to pray for a deliverer.
Maybe an ark?
The distribution of wealth. Our political system is not based on numbers of human individuals, but numbers of dollars. If some individual possesses 1000 times the wealth of some other individual, the former's interests are weighted at something approaching 1000 times the interests of the latter.
Excellent Analysis. Really good synopsis of how things stand. Romney is a real threat, and its hard for me to see evangelics staying home. They hate Obama, and will not let him have a second term. I also fear all the voter suppression rules and possible split the votes plans. But I agree with much of your assessment. Even my lefty home state Oregon could easily go for Romney, but I think that would have more to do with liberal apathy (which I think points to why he is down there). Romney isn't hated in New England from his time as gov, so I think it's conceivable that Maine could switch.
I think its still way too early, and the economy too much of a question mark. The EU could blow up the world. China might overheat. An Iran crisis might develop (or Israel). The stupid debt commission could really rile up things (that was a foolish gamble that may bring Obama down). At this point I would bet on Obama, I think things are going to muddle along economically, possible worse, which will push folks to the democrats over the millionaire who laid off everybody. But who knows. Romeny doesn't seem that bad to a little of middle class folks.
Thanks, looking forward to your future posts.
Thanks very much. Economic instability from a foreign source is an excellent point, it would likely do in Obama. An Iran crisis would probably do the reverse, in that he gets relatively good marks even from indies and Republicans on terrorism and foreign affairs. But your last point is right. Romney just doesn't seem that threatening. But that begs the question as to why he isn't running ahead of an incumbent at 42/50. I say it's Romneycare or Mormonism or both. And again, thanks very much for being gracious in the other thread when I made my observations back to you.
I think the problem we have to worry about now is that Obama will choose to launch a war with Iran to save his flailing administration from our economic doldrums, and to curry favor with global financial power brokers.
Jesus Dan, how do you sleep at night with such thoughts roiling through your head. I mean this is the most progressive president we have had since Nixon. Sure he executes random Pakistanis at will, but what would dare make you think that he would do something so horrible like invade Iran?
I take it you won't be voting in this upcoming presidential election.
Utterly jaded or heartbroken is no excuse for not exercising what little power you may have. Of course I will vote, and I will vote for Obama. However I would note, that living in a deep blue sea, it really wouldn't matter, save for some important upcoming bond measures.
I can't in good conscious condone the world getting worse just because my feelings are hurt, or my leaders impure. I would not go to war for Obama, but I believe he is smart and not deliberatively evil, even well intentioned. The system is fucked, and dems corrupt, but politics is about the art of the possible. It's messy. I drink. I would rather face the world as it is and do what I can. I hope you will vote as well, and I am pretty sure despite all of his silverbacking Dan will vote too.
I don't know how either of those would play off, I could easily see something foreign blow up in Obama's face but another economic crisis freak the country out and demand another stimulus. In both cases it completely depends on the details.
He's not popular because he's a flip-floping douche that nobody would want to have a beer with, but that doesn't mean he can't win. If Obama loses a few critical minority votes to suppression, and the progressive left is not riled up to defeat the evil republican, then Romney can squeak in. Number-crunchers like Rove get that, that is why he pipes up from time to time to slam the other candidates. If things stay the same then the only way Obama wins is big turnout. A big turnout in this country takes either fear or hope. He certainly tried the hope option, so that leaves fear.
I am not convinced that ObamaCare won't become a positive. I know the pundits have bought into it being a negative but it has yet to be tried. When the election becomes closer and the details of OC's full implementation in 2014 become clear to poor and middle-class people then I think they will be very motivated to keep the gains coming to them. Make no mistake I think OC is a poorly designed plan, but I most definitely think that many middle class folks will embrace it. I think that the 2014 implementation was all about the 2012 election, if Romney is the candidate then this is diffused. Republicans could quietly win and then remove the parts they don't like while maintaining the popular parts like the No preconditions. Meanwhile they will gut Medicare.
That's my take, Romney is the threat, ironically its Romney care that makes him the good cop to congress's bad cop. But there is a lot up in the air. We shall see.
Which is what makes it so interesting.
With Romney in, they will gut Medicare. It will be his penance for RomneyCare. I don't think HCR is much of an electoral liability for Obama. The right he can't get hates it, which isn't a marginal harm to him, and the liberals who want a more left HCR aren't going to generally stay home or vote Romney; folks making that argument are more typically high-information and high-motivation participants in politics. I think it's about a push.
Also, by putting HCR into the Supreme Court's upcoming term for decision by June 2012, Obama will have a chance to lament the loss of positive features if it's overturned, and also to keep the focus on Romneycare, which is smart and helpful.
Agreed.
Another point I would add is that Romney as the nominee is why broadening the OWS movement is critical for the dems. The election must be about clear contrasts, and inequity is that contrast with Romney. That's his achilles hill he's an establishment boy (his dad was in the Nixon admin) who become a billionaire by destroying hundreds of companies, and laying off tens of thousands. He's not a moderate, he's the 1% and he wants to destroy your Medicare/social security/public school, he's just playing one on TV.
Now this strategy will require Obama to take a more lefterly populist position than he has shown comfort with in the past, it also hasn't really been tried since FDR or maybe Truman, so its a bit of a gamble. Success will require inequity to be a central issue, and that requires OWS's 99% message to permeate the voter psyche, and resonate.
I agree with the campaign advice you offer, and with how the message of Occupy dovetails with it. I think Gore tried a bit of that (Shrum's "the people versus the powerful") and there is no question that from 2009 to now, that message is/would be much shrewder than it was at the height of the late Clinton years tech bubble, when things were okey dokey. It's a fairly obvious play (one would think). It clashes with the debt deal, and would to some extent be a walkback of same. So yes, in short.
Every Dem's dream is to have a Shrum speech, Obama was the first in modern history who could pull it off. Check out the pivot to fear in this ad I saw today.
hmm I'm not sure if that worked, here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7_9C39WHh8#!
The fear came almost immediately for me, when Obama in his speech talked of reconciliation; ....he was going to become everyones President!!! Are you for real?
We just fought a skirmish in the 2nd civil war we didn't win the war, the opposition was not done, they only lost the Potomac campaign, the white house as the prize. The rest of the nation was up for being the spoils.
The battle was not over and the President was seeking reconciliation? Where did the President get the idea the opposition surrendered?
The right would never accept him and never intended to. They played Rope a Dope with him.
Obama; like Civil War General Meade, had the army, that could once and for all, decimate the republicans; but he let the complete victory slip through his hands; 4 years later the battle rages on.
The difference between the two parties is,...... Obama gives you a kiss?
Had we known he was going to be Judas, maybe Hillary and Bill would have been on that platform?
Can Bill Clinton run again? Oh that's right, it's all about fear; Obama's team doesn't want a primary challenger.
Lest you forget Bill is who we have to blame for Rubinomics. I also recall him ending welfare as we know it, bombing Sudan (among many others), and repealing Glass-Steagall.
The current right will never accept any democrat, ever.
Thanks for the reminder.
When I listen to Bill Clinton, he sounds like the adult in the room.
A Seasoned politician?
Do you remember, Was Clinton forced to end welfare as we know it?
Uh, can you tell me the terrible damage ending "welfare as we know it" had?
In case you've forgotten, there was a horrible crime rate and a pretty hopeless underclass starting in 1993 - situations that shouldn't be just ignored.
But were millions thrown out in the street by that welfare act?
? Starting in 1993? I don't really follow your line of thinking either.
Crime and underclass had been major concerns for quite some time, in fact the 1993 marks the point when they began their long decline that has continued to this day. I tend to subscribe to a mix of Steven Levitt's abortion theory, the explosion in incarceration rates, and a rising economy that actually lifted some boats. Part of this was Rubinomics, and it would be disingenuous not to point to the huge explosion of credit to poor folks. A net negative, but good for the time as it generated lots of jobs. As for keeping crime down over the long term Levitt+Prison are where I would place my money. But a case could be made for the rise of shitty service jobs that don't pay too good (no health care walmarts, fast food workers, and of course CONSTRUCTION laborers!--some are undocumented but many were poor)
FWIW I didn't really argue that 'ending welfare' did much, other then drop a lot of poors off the government books, but that is because there are always lots of factors in social science, and its shitty thinking to try and isolate one. However I do think it shows a point when dems firmly abandoned redistribution as a legitimate policy, this signified their break with New Deal tradition and their embrace of the neoliberal view that encourages the huge income disparities we have today. Its fairly fucking obvious to me that can't all be the 1%, or even the top 20%, so I strongly support redistribution policies (I also don't think the system is particularly logical, or really rewards work). That said, I would not defend the details of how individual welfare programs worked and am happy to see them improved, but I don't enjoy the idea of a "liberal" president being the one to set the precedent. It was a step backwards.
Anyway I have to sleep, so I bid you adieu.
Give me an effing break with "shitty service jobs". Black median income went from $26K to $34K under Clinton. Black unemployment went from 14.2% to 7.6% during same period. I worked with a lot of blacks in good finance/administrative office jobs in those day, not just Wendy's and trash collecting and god forbid construction. People could buy homes, afford vacations, life was good. And the black-on-black murder rate was cut by 2/3, which crime rate seems to be a quality of life issue, as well as affecting basic ability to hold a job or go to school.
Why you have a problem with a liberal president fixing a problem at an opportune time, I don't know. Did you think welfare should be a cradle-to-grave occupation? Are run-down projects sacrosanct because LBJ perfected them?
The big issue is we then elected a president who abandoned the poor, and sent back all the budget pinching to the rich. That's the welfare program I didn't like.
And here's black poverty, dropping from 34% to 23% over Clinton's presidency - was welfare reform really such an issue in 1996?
Your obviously looking for a fight and I am not the right person. I don't hold any program sacrosanct, I noted the complexity of the situation and emphasized that I did not like the message that redistributionist programs are wrong. The context of my comment to Resistance was in regards to the symbolism of Dems abandoning that principle. But yes all programs have flaws, and I support redesigning programs to be more effective.
As to giving you an "effing break"--The shitty service jobs is a very real phenomenon. Incarceration rates also continued to rise throughout Clinton's years. The rise of credit availability to lower income folks was also a huge factor. And of course housing--lots of low skill work there, much of it under the table. And there were simply less young poor people because of demographic shifts and legal abortion, this would have lowered crime and poverty rates naturally regardless of any reform.
Anyway. I don't really care to have this battle. I don't really care that much. I happen to disagree with historical revisionism, or Clinton romantisim. Clinton was not very liberal, he created the conditions for the financial crisis and was critical in the rise of finance (rubinomics, financial deregulation, fucking citigroup...etc.). I place him about the same as Obama--good intentions, but conservative at heart. That was the context of my comment.
Right, you toss him in the same as Obama -
a few cruise missiles fired at Sudan is the same as drone war in Libya and escalation in Afghanistan
There was no Clinton message that "redistributionist programs are wrong" - there was a message that entrenched long-term dependence on welfare did not help on a personal or societal level.
"Shitty service jobs" doesn't explain the huge decrease in black poverty, does it? Or if it does, it's a pretty insulting way of referring to a very positive phenomenon.
"The rise of credit availability to lower income folks was also a huge factor." - and how do you think that came about?
"And of course housing--lots of low skill work there, much of it under the table." Well, that explains the decrease in Hispanic poverty.
"And there were simply less young poor people because of demographic shifts and legal abortion, this would have lowered crime and poverty rates naturally regardless of any reform." Generation Y Cohort or Millennials (born from 1981/82 to 1998/99) - esp. anyone born before 1993/94 - Distinction: Echo Boom they are second highest birth rate generation in US history. And would have been growing all through the 90's.
"I happen to disagree with historical revisionism, or Clinton romantisim." Well, your Clinton bashing seems framed in historical revisionism. As far as I can tell, nothing Clinton did positive can't be explained away by external factors - poor people getting abortions, the dot.com boom.
But then he created the conditions for the financial crisis 8 years later - it was simply impossible for anyone to deflate a steadily growing housing bubble in that time, impossible that a President might have had the SEC monitor naked short-selling and sales of toxic assets, unheard that predatory lending could have been curtailed, that inside traders could have been jailed. It doesn't matter that the financial crisis came in 2008 - Clinton should have stopped it.
(Note - not denying disabling Glass-Steagal was a bad idea. However, the systematic dismantling of government responsibility to manage & monitor government and industry from W's first day in office seems a much bigger story than the policy itself. In the hands of narcissist or a grownup, a box of matches produces very different results.)
Yes. this stuff is complicated, everything has multiple influences and cuases. Ye
FWIW the Levitt abortion argument is about poor folks having abortion 18 years ago. That was something like 1-2 million missing kids, presumably many from people who were poor, I certainly know a few in my family. But yes these missing kids coincided with the echo boom. You're a bright guy, just picking how you want to read things.
Yes I think Shitty service jobs does explain a good part of the rise. A shitty job, is better then no job (Newsflash: Black people work construction too--dick). But the wealth effect trickling down and expansion of credit (mix of technology and deregulation) together created a bigger demand. I don't see you pointing to any factors that explain the fall in black poverty, I agree there are multiple factors, but i am not staring comparing one graph and screaming "proof" Clinton saved us!!!
Sorry you are not going to sell me on Clinton as a liberal savior. Savvy pol--sure. A million times better then Bush, Yup. But deregulation accelerated under his watch setting the stage for the crisis. The housing bubble was well on its way in 2000 when he okayed the 'weapons of mass destruction" that derivatives became. It was his guys in charge and supporting financial deregulation. Long Term Capital, Asian Crisis, Mexico, Russia, any of those crisis ring a bell? But yeah I agree Bush's team poured gas on the fire,. But the financial fire was coming no matter what (Iraq is a very different story). You seem to agree to that, great we agree Clinton wasn't the best.
I don't know if you have Obama derangement or what, but they seem about the same to me.
Funny, I never used the word "liberal".
Yes, black people do construction too, but I noted that black household income went up about 33% over the period - doubtful just from construction and "shitty service jobs", no?
So I guess abortions made blacks wealthier in the 1990's, and poor again in the 2000's. Go figger.
Fall in black poverty: better hiring of minorities at federal level, better home mortgage programs aimed at poor & minorities, booming economy with rise of good jobs, decrease in murder and violent crime rates to allow normal life & work activities, etc.
Digby points to a number of causes for the crash -
Glass Steagall is just 1 of very many.
I'm not sure I follow.
Great Post A-Man. A privilege to read.
"Are you ready for some little ray of hope?". I am, and thanks.
I noticed this quotation at that Dark Optimism blog: "To be truly radical is to make hope possible, rather than despair convincing." - Raymond Williams
Thanks, Donal. I'm going to try to stick with that thought all day long, or until I see another bad Obama poll. Interesting lead to the provincial blog posts.
I think the main difference in this election is that there will be nothing comparable to desperation to shut down an obviously culpable Republican administration. For all their maverick talk, McCain/Palin weren't the answer and Obama was.
On the far right, there is certainly desperation to get rid of Obama, but I don't think that permeates to the moderate right. On the far left there is disappointment with Obama, but I don't think that registers all that much in the moderate left, either. With the moderates, it will come down to whether they now blame Obama for the economy, and whether they believe Romney, or another candidate, can do any better.
"On the far right, there is certainly desperation to get rid of Obama, but I don't think that permeates to the moderate right."
This is an important observation. I think the biggest determining factor in whether Romney makes a race of the general is how far the Teabaggers are willing to go in making the case that "true conservatives" cannot support a Romney candidacy. If they fall in line, and only a small percentage of true believers stay home, it will be a race in 2012. Otherwise, it's 2008 all over again, IMO.
Unless Palin or Paul start a third party, or something, I think my Tea Party relatives will hold their noses and vote Romney.
The Tea Party favors repeal of HCR by something like 97-3. Romney is past being an ironic champion of their stuff, and on into being someone who will give some of them serious heartburn. It is certainly very plausible that Romney will get to 88-10 among Republicans, and if he does, Obama needs the economy to improve to get him to stalemate among independents, but if Romney consolidates Republicans and Obama stays flat, Romney would win by about five points. So the point you're making is very important in terms of the ultimate outcome.
Whether my mother and four of my siblings vote Romney probably depends a lot on what Limbaugh, Hannity, etc, say once his candidacy seems inevitable. My other two siblings are tired of hearing about politics.
My dad loves Romney. I think there's no question that Hannity will fall in line behind it. Limbaugh is a bit of a different question.
There's always this option...
A seldom-discussed question is to what degree will disaffection with Romney translate into, rather than outright opposition, simply people staying home. Conservatives need to turn out their vote; given their smaller numbers nationwide (I'm extrapolating nonvoters who support Democratic policies into potential Democratic voters here), I think they rely on enthusiasm and turnout within their core constituencies much more than Democrats.
“Where did you think I got the gold?” “So you say you believe in leprechauns do ya?”
Plenty more children; follow me, I’ll lead you; it’s just on the other side of that rainbow.
Later, a crying voice of a child could be heard, “my name is Rapunzel” saying she was "condemned to spin straw into gold. ...
Go ahead believe in hope; the greedy little buggers could use more gold.
Thanks for breaking down the numbers for us. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
Terrific post, A-Man.
One detail-oriented question: how much credit do you give to Romney's Michigan roots? Some coverage implies that because his family's political history in Michigan, he has a leg up. Is that overrated, or simply not as important as fundamentals?
I think it helps a little, and he did fine in the 2008 primary, but that was also when John McCain said that the jobs were not coming back, so it was kind of an empty-net goal. His dad was Governor over 40 years ago, so I don't think it helps too much. The Dems also held onto one House seat in the greater Detroit area that was supposed to be a loss, and generally did not perform quite as badly there in House races as in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I think Michigan, with its remaining level of trade-unionism and Obama's work on the auto bailout, is just too heavy a lift for the GOP. It's like reverse Ohio, not likely to deviate from historical trends.